tumbling live ammo?

[sm03]

I have some G.I. LC 1942 . carbine ammo that is a little tarnished that I would like to shoot, would there be any danger to the ammo if I were to tumble it for a while to clean it a bit?

[SMOKEY]

Not a reloader here but tumbling live rounds could damage the projectile. Just wipe tarnish off, make sure pitting isnt to bad, if it is dispose of it. Maybe even pull the bullet for future reloading. These are just what I think are common sense items

[joem]

There have been many discussions and even more opinions as to the effect it would have on loaded ammo. Some people say it could break down the kernals of powder and some say not. I've never done it myself but others have and reported no problems. If you only have a few rounds get a pot scrubber at the store and apply a little elbow grease to clean them.

[BigMo]

Ar15 had a long write up on this- complete with microscopic views of the powder kernals.
Go for it.............No worries.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

I'd shoot them tarnished then tumble the brass.

[Hefights]

Jim's right, tarnish will not hurt the firearm. Shoot the ammo and tumble the brass, unless we're talking more than just tarnish.

Having said that, I have tumbled live ammo. Will not hurt the powder or the projectile, assuming you are talking dry tumbling with corn cob or walnut shells.

[2571]

Jim's right, tarnish will not hurt the firearm. Shoot the ammo and tumble the brass, unless we're talking more than just tarnish.

Having said that, I have tumbled live ammo. Will not hurt the powder or the projectile, assuming you are talking dry tumbling with corn cob or walnut shells.

I do it routinely. Fail to see how abrasive would affect safety unless one were using ball bearings. I've used apricot pit w/loaded ammo.

[GA-Dave]

If it's tarnish (just discolored) then shoot it. If it is corroded (rust like bumps), especially around the primer, the discard it or break it down because the corrosion can weaken the case. I had a primer failure because of corrosion a long time ago.

I tumble all of my reloads to remove case lube and finger prints. My tumbler is a vibratory case tumbler with walnut hulls.

HTH,
Dave

[jjrothWA]

The answer is: "Well, do you feel lucky"?

Suggest you use 3M auto polishing pad (light grey) by hand to remove what you have, then deprime and tuble per other responses.

[PhillipM]

Ar15 had a long write up on this- complete with microscopic views of the powder kernals.
Go for it.............No worries.

^^this^^


Logic alone isn’t enough when it comes to harnessing propellant gases mere inches from a shooter’s face, so we asked experts at two of the World’s leading powder and ammunition makers. I spoke to the Chief Ballistic Scientist at Hornady Manufacturing and the Head Ballistician at Hodgdon Powder and asked for their professional opinions. Both agreed that this is a myth devoid of empirical data.
"Powder is hard, it doesn’t change shape from any reasonable amount of vibration,” said Hornady’s Dave Emary. “This notion that you can wear deterrent off of the surface of the powder is a myth, it is impregnated into the powder grains. You can’t knock this stuff off."
Both scientists felt that tumbling was a safe practice within the bounds of reason.

http://www.americanhunter.org/blog.php?id=21301&cat=56

[kcw]

I use the base and appropriate locking collar of the Lee spin trimmer set. I chuck the trimmer base into variable drill, which is then itself chucked up in my bench vise upside down so as to allow access to the trigger. Steel wool with a touch of something like Brass-O polisher on it, held between the thumb and forefinger against the brass/bullet, will spin off tarnish but quick. Then, after allowing the brass to dry, a quick wipe off with an old cotton towel will remove any dried polish reminates. You usually only need three or four seconds of spinning per round. Change steel wool after 20 or so rounds.

[psteinmayer]

I do the same thing with the Lee trimmer collar and my drill, but I use a paste polish from Germany called Autosol. This stuff is amazing!!! A few seconds with a dab on a piece of paper towel, and then use an old wash cloth to buff... Not only will you remove the tarnish, they'll shine like the top of the Chrysler Building! I do this to all of the ammo I use for matches (30-40 and M2 Ball). I once took a piece of scrap aluminum plate, and after 10 minutes with Autosol and a little elbow grease, I had a mirror finish!

[Matt Anthony]

A vibratory style case cleaner or a tumbler type does what? Cleans cases! Was it designed to clean live ammo, I don't think so! Can it be done, some say yes and some say no! Don't forget, the ones you are listening to are not going to be shooting the ammo, you are!

Getting down to basics, ammo is trucked, flown, moved by rail and many many more types of modes of delivery to it's destination. Does it get vibrated, shaken, bounced around, you bet it does! How many times have you seen a box of ammo fall off a table or fallen from your buddys pocket, or the stocking person dropping an entire case? So, will it hurt to vibrate or tumble live ammo, in my opinion and for my use, yes. However, experts in the industry and field say it's OK, so it's up to the individual to determine which way to go. I don't think it's a good practice as the machines we use to clean cases were never intended to clean live ammo, have you read on their labels that it's OK? I know my Lyman vibratory cleaners don't say it! Perhaps if someone had a machine to do that, then I would consider it if I were to have need of such a task!
Matt

[da gimp]

Years ago, we used our Thumbler's Tumblers to clean all the case lube off loaded bottle necked rifle ammo............ Then several guys from one of the huge reloading/powder manufacturers chewed us up one side & down the other........... their point was....... why take the chance............... supposedly an expert from the same company was quoted above saying the opposite.............. clean the lube & cases off BEFORE you seat your primers & load the cases............. it is idiotic to do otherwise..........................it isn't that much trouble to clean the primer flash holes from cases.........1st we throw all fired brass into the tumbler, then sift out the cleaning media, then we deprime & resize all brass , then return it to the tumbler to put a final cleanse on the brass (including primer pockets)....... clean the flash holes after sifting, the run it thru the Dillon 550............it isn't worth the chance of damaging the powder by tumbling fully loaded ammo in a tumbler or vibratory cleaner...................

[Hefights]

I do it routinely. Fail to see how abrasive would affect safety unless one were using ball bearings. I've used apricot pit w/loaded ammo.

Apricot pits? Where do you get them? I wold like to try that. I was thinking of wet tumbling, would not do that with live ammo.

[2571]

Routinely used in industry here in Detroit.

Any abrasive company will have it in stock.

If you have problems, contact me.

[2571]

[QUOTE=GA-Dave;329396

I tumble all of my reloads to remove . . . finger prints.
Dave[/QUOTE]

What are you using this ammo for? Are we gonna see your picture on the evening news?

[Tuna]

I have been tumbling ammo for many years. Stuff from WW1 to newer rounds made 10 years ago. Rifle and pistol all have been fine when shot. I have pulled rifle rounds after tumbling for 24 hours and not a single broken kernel of powder could be found.

[da gimp]

your cajones are much bigger than mine tuna.............

[Tuna]

Gimp in fact I just finished tumbling about 1200 rounds of salvaged 5.56 about 2 months ago. I have shot about 300 rounds of it so far an not one problem with any of it.

[Matt Anthony]

I think this subject is a safety issue as it only takes one instance of calamity to turn the minds of others. Too bad for the guy that it happens too! I'd hate to be the person that said it's OK to do it and then everything goes south. Maybe we don't hear of accidents because the people are dead or in a hospital in an iron lung! Another point, if you encounter a round that lit off while tumbling, would you admit to it? I didn't think so!
There is interior deteriorization, or corrosion that can take place on old military rounds due to storage issues, that's a fact when you look at some of the Greek 30/06 ammo the CMP was selling. Poorly stored ammo is a liability in my opinion.
It doesn't really matter to me if you tumble live ammo, just do it alone and away from your kids and others.
Matt

[Hefights]

This thread has both credible expert opinions cited, and significant actual exprience of life long shooters reflected.

You CAN dry tumble live ammo safely in media such as corn cob or walnut, with no risk under normal conditions, in a reasonable timeframe required to clean and shine the metal.

Thats about all there is to say. Sorry if your opinion differs, but the proof is overwhelming on this one.

[Tuna]

And one more thing. Most of us have vibrating cleans and not the older tumblers and there is a difference between them.

[Johnny in Texas]

I have vibrated thousands of .223 and 7.62 loaded ammo and never had any problems. The ammo was Isreali surplus that looked like it came off the battlefield tarnished dirty. I ran it overnight and shot it full auto and semi with great results only the badly dented ammo had feed problems.

[Matt Anthony]

This thread has both credible expert opinions cited, and significant actual exprience of life long shooters reflected.

You CAN dry tumble live ammo safely in media such as corn cob or walnut, with no risk under normal conditions, in a reasonable timeframe required to clean and shine the metal.

Thats about all there is to say. Sorry if your opinion differs, but the proof is overwhelming on this one.

Hefights:
If you ask the people that make and sell gun powder, specifically Hodgdon you will find out they do not endorse tumbling live ammo. They consider tumbling live ammo as a negative operation not a positive one which could result in powder breakdown. I called them on Friday of last week.
I will stick to their recommendation on the handling of their powder and products as they know far more than the experts that are on the gun forums.
As far as me personally, you didn't show me any proof that tumbling live ammo is a safe and practical operation for cleaning live ammo. Just because someone or thousands do it, doesn't mean it's right. However, if you wish to call Hodgdon for confirmation of what I said, you are more than welcome. I have no argument with you on the subject, and I don't believe it's opinion that is important, it's the safety issue!
Matt

[PhillipM]

Hefights:
If you ask the people that make and sell gun powder, specifically Hodgdon you will find out they do not endorse tumbling live ammo. They consider tumbling live ammo as a negative operation not a positive one which could result in powder breakdown. I called them on Friday of last week.
I will stick to their recommendation on the handling of their powder and products as they know far more than the experts that are on the gun forums.
As far as me personally, you didn't show me any proof that tumbling live ammo is a safe and practical operation for cleaning live ammo. Just because someone or thousands do it, doesn't mean it's right. However, if you wish to call Hodgdon for confirmation of what I said, you are more than welcome. I have no argument with you on the subject, and I don't believe it's opinion that is important, it's the safety issue!
Matt

It looks like the Hodgdon scientists should get their story straight.


Logic alone isn’t enough when it comes to harnessing propellant gases mere inches from a shooter’s face, so we asked experts at two of the World’s leading powder and ammunition makers. I spoke to the Chief Ballistic Scientist at Hornady Manufacturing and the Head Ballistician at Hodgdon Powder and asked for their professional opinions. Both agreed that this is a myth devoid of empirical data.
"Powder is hard, it doesn’t change shape from any reasonable amount of vibration,” said Hornady’s Dave Emary. “This notion that you can wear deterrent off of the surface of the powder is a myth, it is impregnated into the powder grains. You can’t knock this stuff off."
Both scientists felt that tumbling was a safe practice within the bounds of reason.

http://www.americanhunter.org/blog.php?id=21301&cat=56

[Matt Anthony]

Ok, no reason to continue, you are right and thats the end of it!

[psteinmayer]

I know this may be a stupid question to ask... but doesn't ammo get bounced/vibrated/jiggled/tossed around during handling and transport... especially when traveling cross country in a military vehicle such as a tank or personnel carrier? It sure doesn't seem to affect the ammo adversely, because if it did, we'd be screwed on the battlefield.

I don't tumble or vibrate my rounds, but as I said before, I do spin it with my drill while I polish my cases. Seems to me that the spinning would damage the powder the same as vibrating it... and I've never had a problem with my ammo. For whatever it's worth!

[jgaynor]

I'd shoot them tarnished then tumble the brass.

+1...Don't cross the bridge until you have to! :)

[Matt Anthony]

I know this may be a stupid question to ask... but doesn't ammo get bounced/vibrated/jiggled/tossed around during handling and transport... especially when traveling cross country in a military vehicle such as a tank or personnel carrier? It sure doesn't seem to affect the ammo adversely, because if it did, we'd be screwed on the battlefield.

I don't tumble or vibrate my rounds, but as I said before, I do spin it with my drill while I polish my cases. Seems to me that the spinning would damage the powder the same as vibrating it... and I've never had a problem with my ammo. For whatever it's worth!

Yep, you are absolutely correct, that's something I posted before, but using a vibratory cleaner is not the same as being jostled in a military vehicle. The pulse or frequency is constant only being changed momentrailly when the ammo gets to the top of the mountain of corn cob and decends downward then changes direction again and again and again. Does it matter, according to all of the experts here on CSP and other forums, no! So, if one were to use this forum only to determine if one should tumble or vibrate live ammo, then it's perfectly OK.
I've been convinced that it's OK for anyone to do this operation. I am so glad this has finally been put to rest! :icon_salut:
Matt

[da gimp]

depends on the length of time that the ammo is tumbled too................ 10 minutes is one thing.............. forgetting that you had a batch in your tumbler for hours is quite another...........powder kernels will like anything else be subject to abrasive erosion............

[Matt Anthony]

depends on the length of time that the ammo is tumbled too................ 10 minutes is one thing.............. forgetting that you had a batch in your tumbler for hours is quite another...........powder kernels will like anything else be subject to abrasive erosion............

With all due respect, you have been a forum regular for along time, and you now went against the experts who have said tumbling and or vibrating is OK, without any time restrictions. I have read it all, on this forum and others that people clean live ammo by tumbling overnight and such. On subjects such as these it's better to leave it to the experts and follow your gut as your gut will be correct 99.99% of the time. I know I won't again get involved in forum questions such as this again. Better left to the experts here on the CSP forum network, they know it all!
Matt