Krag carbine on CMP............ [Archive]

View Full Version : Krag carbine on CMP............

Dan Shapiro

10-23-2013, 05:41

Any comments from the experts on this one?

http://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail.asp?id=1535&n=Krag-Jorgenson-1899-Cavalry-Carbine-347688

m1903rifle

10-23-2013, 06:07

Looks correct to me........and it is a "hit" in SRS. Will probably go high.

psteinmayer

10-23-2013, 06:14

Looks pretty good. It's currently at over $1,400... and I'm betting it's going to keep going up! Wish I had a couple grand to throw down. I'd be making shipping arrangements instead of typing this, LOL :)

Weasel

10-23-2013, 08:25

The bidding Sharks smell blood.

Dick Hosmer

10-23-2013, 10:10

Here's another, but with a problem - what is it?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=370805053

70ish

10-23-2013, 11:59

Saddle ring

mack

10-24-2013, 06:02

I can't predict the final price on the CMP piece, but north of three thousand seems likely considering the early stages of bidding.

Dick Hosmer

10-24-2013, 09:32

Saddle ring

Very good - 30" stocks came both ways (though the "no ring/bar" is rare) but the 32" NEVER had it.

psteinmayer

10-24-2013, 05:45

Very good - 30" stocks came both ways (though the "no ring/bar" is rare) but the 32" NEVER had it.

Also, as I posted over on KCA, the Krag is listed as an 1898, but no serial number is given. 1898's have a very specific serial number range. I'd be very suspicious.

Rick the Librarian

10-25-2013, 06:34

Any comments from the experts on this one?

http://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail.asp?id=1535&n=Krag-Jorgenson-1899-Cavalry-Carbine-347688

If it's like most guns on the CMP auctions, it will sell for much higher than it is worth in reality.

Mark Daiute

11-01-2013, 02:17

If it's like most guns on the CMP auctions, it will sell for much higher than it is worth in reality.

While I agree with the sentiment expressed, reality, unfortunately for us, becomes what is paid.

coastie

11-01-2013, 06:49

I am not even going to look. I can't afford it!
But...isn't the saying quoted as : "paid the right price too early"?
Or something similar.
5 or 10 years from now......
Thanks, Paul

mack

11-09-2013, 12:49

I predicted north of $3000 and it wound up at $3177. I am not an expert at predicting, but I have followed CMP auctions long enough to be able to see from early bidding where I think things will go.

As for paying too much, the rifles on CMP may be high but they come with provenance that can't be disputed and that accounts for much of their price. No messing around with these rifles means higher prices. Once it's outside Anniston, the bets are all closed as buyer can ruin the finest of rifles from CMP. Witness some of the sanded, refinished, touched up examples offered and shown on various forums. Which would you rather have? A chopped up, refurbed one or one that costs a few dollars more and is authentic?

Dick Hosmer

11-09-2013, 07:26

dave

11-09-2013, 02:28

If it's like most guns on the CMP auctions, it will sell for much higher than it is worth in reality.

I'll second that! Have not even bought from CMP since late 90's, even everyday items are too high.

psteinmayer

11-09-2013, 03:56

I must digress... I purchased my Garand from the CMP north last April for what I would consider a pretty decent price. Anywhere else I see Garands, they are not nearly as nice as mine, and usually almost double the price... or more. I guess it really depends on the rifle, rarity, and condition. As for the Krag Carbine, I agree that 3,000 or more is insane (unless it's like new, with no rounds fired through it... and can be positively documented to be a Rough Rider Carbine).

IditarodJoe

11-09-2013, 05:46

You've raised an interesting point - just what is the provenance of the arms offered by CMP? Is there any reason to believe they have always been under government control - treasures from some musty warehouse? I have to admit that I am totally ignorant of the process, but have seen pictures of some pretty jumbled pieces, and read less-than-glowing reports of what was available in the racks. Have never visited the facilities (2000 miles away) or participated in one of their auctions. Thanks for any details you can provide.
Dick, here's my limited perspective based on having bought about a dozen rifles, both by mail and from the store, over the past ten years.

When I bought my first CMP rifle (from the North Store), they segregated the Garands into "USGI" and "<fill in the country> returns". The LL/MAP returns were priced significantly cheaper. The impression I have is that the USGI rifles were believed to have been in the continuous custody of the US military. The one I bought was a RRAD rebuild from the mid-60s that appeared to have come straight from the depot.

In more recent years, they've begun co-mingling the foreign returns Garands. They now seem to catagorize rifles based on condition alone and don't/won't generally specify where they came from. I wouldn't be surprised to see "service organization" returns start showing up among the Garands soon, although I don't believe that to be the case yet. Most of the LL/MAP rifles showed tell-tale characteristics that gave a clue where they had been, e.g., stock disk cutouts on the Danes, European wood, Greek or Italian markings, etc.

Obviously, an LL or MAP rifle is likely to have been "tampered" with by a foreign government. Any rifle that was lent to a VFW or AL . . . well, you know all bets are off. But even a rifle that was "pure USGI" when the CMP sold it loses all provenance once it's sold, save for the receiver.

I feel that the direct CMP sales have always been, and may still be, good bargains overall, even factoring in the occasional luck-of-the-draw bad outcome. And the program is well known for doing just about whatever it takes to ensure a satisfied customer. The CMP online auctions, on the other hand, are a different matter entirely. These appear to be dominated by buyers with money who don't mind overpaying a bit for something they want as it's "for a good cause".

I'm not sure what you mean by "jumbled pieces". Unless a Garand is in nearly unissued condition, I would be skeptical of any rifle that isn't a mix of parts from different years and manufacturers - especially one of WW2/Korea vintage. It's that way they were used. They were made to have fully interchangeable parts and our government seems to have been determined to take maximum advantage of that fact.

JMHO. HTH.

Dick Hosmer

11-09-2013, 08:15

Many thanks for the input - I wasn't specific enough! :-(

In the case of Garands there are numerous possibilities, since many took a trip abroad.

I was speaking only of Krags - where does the CMP get them? I'm guessing a significant portion have come from AL and/or VFW posts, etc?

IditarodJoe

11-10-2013, 09:04

My fault, sir. I've been under the weather for the past few days or I likely would have figures that out. I didn't mean to insult your intelligence. I looked over probably 30-something of this last batch in the racks at the North Store when they were there. I agree that it's extremely improbable that any of them avoided time at a VFW or AL post, but even that constitutes some provenance . . . but only up to the point the rifle was sold.

Dick Hosmer

11-10-2013, 09:51

Hey Joe - no fault, no insult taken - I was NOT clear.

But, I still would like to know the source of the CMP Krags - they're not virgins, they have made a loop out through the real world, and, if the examples I have seen at our local VFW are a representative example, at least some of them have been diddled. So, what thought is "a provenance that can't be disputed" and "no messing around with these rifles" intended to convey? Not your post, I realize, but the dog's not talking! :-)

I'd think that every CMP arm - just like the modest offerings from Gunbroker and all the way up to the very pricy Collectors Firearms in Houston - would have to be judged on its' own physical merits, with very little, or zero, weight placed on the venue itself.