My brief encounter with two amazing WWII rifles

[carbination]

Seeing Tuna's comment in another thread, about the first production Winchester carbine being S/N 1000000, reminded me of when my family (my grandfather, actually) owned that very gun for a short time. He earned it as payment for some landscaping work he did for a widow somewhere in or around New Haven, CT. Actually, she paid him with two rifles (the second was a very special Garand, as you can see), in a wood presentation box. My grandfather, an airman in WWII, didn't know much about these weapons. But my uncle did, and soon afterward they sold them at a gun show to a collector. This was in 1986, when I was 16. I remember being allowed to hold each of them before they were sold. Here are the photos they took of the serial numbers. These photos were the only things on the table they rented at the gun show where they were sold. I figured some of you on this forum might be interested in these pictures.

[joem]

It's too bad you don't have those today. Really treasures to hold.

[GA-Dave]

Wow, that is cool. Must have been some special landscaping work.

[Tuna]

It sure is great to see both of these. Notice the Winchester proof stamp on the bevel of the carbine. It was not used for very long. Thank you for showing them to us.

[bug]

Any idea where these guns are today?

[carbination]

I understand why my grandfather decided to sell them, but MAN I wish he hadn't! I have no idea where they are today, except that I'm sure they're in a private (and very wealthy) collector's vault. I do know that Winchester's M1 carbine #1,000,001 (the second off the line) is in the Buffalo Bill Center of the West, in Cody WY. I'd like to visit it someday.

[budmant]

If my eyes aren't messing with me, do I see flush nut sights on the Garand?

[carbination]

There's a border around the picture that is almost the same tone as the background, and I think that border is cutting off the sides of the rear sight, making it look flush.

[GasTrapsForMe]

No its a flush nut. The "educational" order was finished long before lock bars were introduced. The rifle also sports the double keystone springs, and no trap RS/WRA stock. Kevin

[BudT]

By all means go to the BB Center, it is a "experience" in American History. Plan for at least 2 days to see most of it.

[ChipS]

This is amazing. Did your Grandfather say who the widow was? Any guesses from the forum? Near New Haven, CT. Maybe the widow of the former WRA president, CEO or CoB during wartime production? Amazing.

[carbination]

I think you're right about that, Chip. My grandfather (who died in 1988), said she was the widow of an Olin or Winchester executive. I don't know which, or exactly who. Now that I'm a collector of these beautiful rifles, I must tell you that I often daydream about what it would be like to still have these in my family.

[AZCraig]

For what it is worth, I own both of these rifles.

[lyman]

For what it is worth, I own both of these rifles.

welcome to the boards,


and please, if you have time, a thread for each w/ pics would be appreciated by many here

[RCS]

I have a question for AZ Craig, ever since Scott Duff published the photo of Winchester 100001 in his
book on the WW2 M1 rifle (early 1990's), collectors have speculated on a certain part in this rifle. The
photos just do not show the type of slide on the follower.

It is believed that Winchester used the early slide with the 45 degree nose and 20 degree back.

My photo shows all three types of slides used on Winchester followers. Any information you could
provide would be appreciated by the advanced Winchester collectors47728

[AZCraig]

I have a question for AZ Craig, ever since Scott Duff published the photo of Winchester 100001 in his
book on the WW2 M1 rifle (early 1990's), collectors have speculated on a certain part in this rifle. The
photos just do not show the type of slide on the follower.

It is believed that Winchester used the early slide with the 45 degree nose and 20 degree back.

My photo shows all three types of slides used on Winchester followers. Any information you could
provide would be appreciated by the advanced Winchester collectors47728

Here is a pic of the slide. I have a ton of info on both the carbine and the M1 (including the bill of sale from the widow to Robert Smith dated 1980) but not a lot of time to gather it all up right now.

47730

[RCS]

Thank you for posting the photo. I have a copy of the first data sheet made by Scott Duff who sent it
to me before the book was completed.

Many advanced Winchester collectors thought that the Springfield revision 2 unmarked follower and slide
were manufactured by Winchester in the first Educational Order rifles and your excellent photo confirms
it. RCS

[Tom in N.J.]

RCS..I saw those two at a show in East Hartford, CT ( High School gym, Glastonbury, CT., try that nowadays!).