No4 Mk 1

[stratocaster]

Just back from the gunshow in Monroe, WA where there was table of 60-70 milsurp rifles being sold from a collection. I picked up a No 4 Mk1 with sling and spike bayonet. The bore looks good, headspace is a bit generous but serviceable. The tag indicated the rifle was acquired in 1968 and I don't see any import marks.

Curious about several things, maybe you know. I don't recognize the markings on the receiver so I'm not sure if this was a BSA or Faz. The receiver bridge is welded, maybe this was common for wartime builds? Thanks for any insight on this rifle.


http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/stratocastor/temporary_zpsd66b270f.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/stratocastor/temporary_zps4c1ece22.jpg

[Guamsst]

I've never seen a weld there but that means little, What are the letters over 42 ?OF

[stratocaster]

I've never seen a weld there but that means little, What are the letters over 42 ?OF

ROF. which I assume means Royal Ordinance Factory. I found the serial number range that indicates this is a Fazarkerley build. Odd about the welded receiver bridge.

[krinko]

The weld is common on Fazakerley rifles, Maltby and BSA were apparently swedging the charger bridge in place.
I have unmolested FAZ No4s from 1942 into late 1943---if they were still allowing cats to do the welding in 1944-45 I can not say, as I have never gotten my hands on any in original configuration.
-----krinko

[swede49]

The "England" on the receiver above the serial # is the import mark for the period when this rifle was imported.
Nice piece!

[JB White]

The "England" on the receiver above the serial # is the import mark for the period when this rifle was imported.
Nice piece!

+1 on that. Too many collectors who came onboard post-1980's fail to recognise that marking for what it is. "Pre-billboard" marked...yes. Non-marked?....no.

[John Kepler]

+1 on that. Too many collectors who came onboard post-1980's fail to recognise that marking for what it is. "Pre-billboard" marked...yes. Non-marked?....no.

Actually, you both have it backwards! It's a British EXPORT mark!

[rayg]

What other guns were on that table and what were some of the prices if you remember. I've been to that show a few times but there were usually only a few milsurp rifles there, not many, Ray

[JB White]

Actually, you both have it backwards! It's a British EXPORT mark!

It was applied in the UK prior to exportation to the US...in compliance with US import laws. So does it really make a difference?

[Rick the Librarian]

What other guns were on that table and what were some of the prices if you remember. I've been to that show a few times but there were usually only a few milsurp rifles there, not many, Ray

I didn't attend but heard that there were a large number of military rifles for sale for VERY reasonable prices, mostly SMLEs, Mausers, etc. Needless to say the table(s) looked like the Christmas sale at Macys. However, word got out that they sold a rifle to a non-member (a real no-no at WAC gunshows) and they were expelled from the show.

[jgaynor]

It was applied in the UK prior to exportation to the US...in compliance with US import laws. So does it really make a difference?

Yes. The purpose of the import markings established by the GCA of 1968 was to make it possible to do a gun trace. For example a surplus firearm is found at a crime scene - authorities go directly to the importer with the make, model and S/N - the importer gives up the dealer, who in turn gives up the first purchaser.

A mark which just states "England" or "English Made" would serve little purpose as far as a trace is concerned.

There may well be some other statutes or regulations that require products to be marked as to country of origin.

[stratocaster]

I didn't attend but heard that there were a large number of military rifles for sale for VERY reasonable prices, mostly SMLEs, Mausers, etc. Needless to say the table(s) looked like the Christmas sale at Macys. However, word got out that they sold a rifle to a non-member (a real no-no at WAC gunshows) and they were expelled from the show.

It was feeding frenzy with Mauser variants and SMLEs going for $100. I paid $175 for my No4 and I'm kicking myself for not grabbing more. They also had some grenade launcher No1s with the nasty looking wire wrapped stocks but I passed on those. This kind of thing keeps me going back to gun shows. :-)

[JB White]

Yes. The purpose of the import markings established by the GCA of 1968 was to make it possible to do a gun trace. For example a surplus firearm is found at a crime scene - authorities go directly to the importer with the make, model and S/N - the importer gives up the dealer, who in turn gives up the first purchaser.

A mark which just states "England" or "English Made" would serve little purpose as far as a trace is concerned.

There may well be some other statutes or regulations that require products to be marked as to country of origin.

Not quite. When they lifted restrictions on the importation of surplus firearms is when they required the importers info be marked in a prominant place on the firearm. (The so-called billboard marking) That happened in 1986, not 1968. Prior to that surplus arms were marked in compliance with country of origin only. ENGLAND on the buttsocket goes back to that pre-86 timeframe.

[John Kepler]

It was applied in the UK prior to exportation to the US...in compliance with US import laws. So does it really make a difference?

Huge difference.....and you've got the basic facts a bit sideways. Great Britain had a requirement to mark EVERY military firearm that was exported out of the country. Such firearms were marked "England", were proof-stamped (usually with "BNP"), and the data on the cartridge used (".303 2.222" 18.5 TONS PER[]"). The British Export Mark preceded the 86 NFA by nearly 50 years, and is common on most Enfields in the US and Canada.

Oh......and JB, there are M1917's and M1 Garands originally sent under Lend-Lease that have those same British Export Marks when they were shipped back to the US of A!