CMP Vintage Match in mid July next year.

[madsenshooter]

Lots of changes to the National Match schedule for next year. For me looks like a day with the Garand and the Krag, next day with my Swiss K31 if I can afford that many entry fees. Y'all plan to be there! http://www.thecmp.org/nm/2014nmcalendar.pdf

[George in NH]

Am I unhappy about 2014-2015 National Matches dates?? Yes I am. It will cost me MORE money and MORE time to attend in 14/15. Only by the skin of my wallet did I go to Perry this year-13. It looks like the NRA people did whatever they did to accommodate the Palma Teams (why I do not know) and throw the rest of us under the bus. The smallbore Nationals have been moved West about 2-3 hours more beyond Perry. I see no need to cause several THOUSAND people to change their plans which adds to the expense of time/money for the convenience of several hundred people. My first year at Perry was 1995 and I have gone back each year since for National Trophy rifle and CMP games. I hope to also start attending National Trophy pistol if I can make that happen. I hate getting pushed around especially when there is no explanation forth coming from the "powers that be". Reminds me of the M14NM turn in years ago; no official explanation, just turn them in. I smelled a rat but could do nothing but comply. NH had 18 M14NM's at one time. Wow, did they shoot!! George in NH :(

[psteinmayer]

Well, I will definitely be there!!! Krag and Garand right along with you Bob. Maybe I'll shoot the Arisaka with you also when you shoot your K31.

[Mark Daiute]

Krag and 03 and maybe a carbine next year for me.

[gnoahhh]

Krag and 1861 Springfield for me. (You should see me in the rapid fire stages! :) )

[Ltdave]

Am I unhappy about 2014-2015 National Matches dates?? Yes I am. It will cost me MORE money and MORE time to attend in 14/15. Only by the skin of my wallet did I go to Perry this year-13. It looks like the NRA people did whatever they did to accommodate the Palma Teams (why I do not know) and throw the rest of us under the bus. The smallbore Nationals have been moved West about 2-3 hours more beyond Perry. I see no need to cause several THOUSAND people to change their plans which adds to the expense of time/money for the convenience of several hundred people. My first year at Perry was 1995 and I have gone back each year since for National Trophy rifle and CMP games. I hope to also start attending National Trophy pistol if I can make that happen. I hate getting pushed around especially when there is no explanation forth coming from the "powers that be". Reminds me of the M14NM turn in years ago; no official explanation, just turn them in. I smelled a rat but could do nothing but comply. NH had 18 M14NM's at one time. Wow, did they shoot!! George in NH :(

i agree with you 1000%. i will be taking up to 5 juniors down for SAFS. thats on a tuesday, wednesday and thursday. i will be requiring their parents come down too because i dont have enough coaches or other support personnel to help herd them around. then i had originally planned on having them shoot in the P100 and NTI. those matches are the next tuesday and wednesday...

lets add up those days. 3 days the first week and an additional 3 days the next week. while its not an apple to apple comparison but i usually would go down sunday night and come home tuesday after the NTI. not sure how im going to sell this to the parents. especially if they take their kids to the smallbore matches as well...

[psteinmayer]

Gnoahhh, I would love to see that!

Mark, we should all try to squad near each other next year!

Lt Dave, that really stinks. Maybe some of us Krag shooters can lend a hand if there is extra time available. I would certainly volunteer to help where I could!

Paul

[JOEZ]

I agree with George . These changes are a poison pill for me. I might (MAYBE) be able to make the carbine match next year. I can only hope they go back to the old schedule after this big to-do is over.

[M2Phil]

I'll be there right along with the rest of you, melting in July instead of August.

[psteinmayer]

Except, Please God... No early morning Fog this year!

[madsenshooter]

I enjoyed watching those little droplets run towards the lake.

[psteinmayer]

LOL Bob... I seem to recall you trying to catch a few winks :)

[lyman]

strange (to me) to schedule it like that,

had to turn down a trip this year due to the time of the month (busy time for me)
however the new schedule is split between 2 weeks, making it hard for me to get off to shoot several different matches (and drive up, about 9hrs)

may try to make a match or 2..

[madsenshooter]

OK guys, I'm in winter time plotting for July mode! I got these fat nosed bullet molds, they're really made for the Mosin rifle which can have groove diameters running up to .317 and beyond and the bands on the bullets cast that large. I have a 150gr flat nose and a 200gr spitzer to play with. Since the nose is so big I put an old friend of mine back together, a ratty looking old 92/96 with a .310" groove diameter, the one I used to shoot 123gr .310 bullets out of and shot 3 yrs ago at Camp Perry. It has some stock cracks that need repaired, but I'll just keep an eye on them for now. The fat noses on these bullets allow me to seat the bullets to a shorter OAL that feed pretty good, but the ogive is still in the rifling. If I can get some decent results I plan on using one of the bullets for Camp Perry. The fellows on castboolits report that the spitzer (or is that spritzer?) shoots around five minutes flatter than a 311299. I size the bullets down in two stages, then give them an oven tempering before lubing. I'm going to try casting some of an alloy that Townsend Whelen mentioned on page 197 of his book, "Suggestions to Military Rifleman". He calls it Ideal Bullet Metal, but the formula he gives is for Ideal's #1 alloy. I've used a similar alloy in a 6x45 AR and was able to get up around 2300fps with accuracy. Ill try to get up around that velocity with the 150gr and maybe 2100-2200 with the heavier spritzer. Since I'm going for a higher velocity, I put an 1898 sight on it that has had the eyepiece modified, the outer notches machined off, and it has a V cut into the center slot. Hmm, that makes me wonder if earlier model rifles that went through rebuild during the short time the 98 cartridge was in use got 1898 sights put on them. I've never noticed a 92 or 96 with a 98 sight though. It has the fine serrations on the side of the leaf for about 1.5" @ 200yd. This rifle weighs 2-3lb less than the parkerized Krag with its cosmoline soaked stock.

[Bob S]

Bob,

I'm pretty certain that the 1898 sight had a smooth-side leaf. The 1902 sight came in two flavors WRT grooved sides:

1/40 ", which gave a 25yard repeatable setting:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/Krag/M1902sightcoarseserations2.jpg

and 1/80", which gave a 12-1/2 yard repeatable adgustment:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/Krag/M1902sightfineserations2.jpg

The actual value of an elevation change in minutes-of-angle for a movement of one "groove" for either variant would vary depending on where you were on the yardage scale. Townsend Whelan (or was it Dr. Hudson?) published a table that gave the value in inches on the target; from that you can easily calculate the change in MOA for any range.

Some 1898 sights were modified to 1902 configuration, but I don't own one, so I don't know if the update process included grooving the leaf and replacing the slide with one to match the grooves. I'm sure one of our more erudite historians can fill us in on the part.

[psteinmayer]

Speaking of bullet situations... I've been shooting 220 grain Hornady round nosed jacketed bullets for a while now. These are a soft point bullet with a cannelure which performs well in my 1898 rifle. Word on the street is that Hornady is going to end production on a large selection of their bullets, these included. I have enough of these left to compete at Camp Perry, and a couple other Vintage matches. I also have a hundred rounds of older Hornady 220 grain round nosed FMJ bullets, courtesy of Madsenshooter... but they won't last past my practice rounds this spring. Does anyone know of another bullet manufacturer that makes a 220 grain round nose (preferably FMJ)? I really like shooting these traditional Krag loadings!

I'm not opposed to shooting cast, but my rifle has yet to be slugged (although I suspect it's pretty close to spec). Also, I don't have the equipment to cast my own bullets, and cost is a huge factor right now. For what it's worth, I do plan to start shooting Cast in my 1898 sporter as soon as I get my scope properly mounted - so I can compete in cast bullet matches.

[madsenshooter]

I don't know if your 98 would feed those 220gr cast bullets I gave you, but if it does, there you go. I know it'll fill up the throat. I'd start around 36-37gr of 4350, they're cast of an alloy that'll take 35,000psi or so. From what I been reading on castboolits, I wouldn't be able to sell any to you unless I paid a $2500/yr fee.

Bob, there is one finer, a leaf with knurling on the side that I get about half the movement as I do with the 1/80. Tables are for the coarser 1/40 sight.

[psteinmayer]

I don't know if your 98 would feed those 220gr cast bullets I gave you, but if it does, there you go.

If I use them for the next Cast Match at Washtenaw, I'll be shooting them in my sporter... Aren't the cast matches single shot only? Feeding wouldn't be an issue if that is the case.

[madsenshooter]

Right. But I was thinking for on down the road, hard to tell when Hornady will turn back to production, if ever. I've got to cast some more of that bullet, I really haven't given it much of a trial myself, and now I have 3 Krags together!

[psteinmayer]

Well, if it works out... I might pay you for a few hundred cast bullets later this year!

[Bob S]

If you want to shoot a jacketed bullet, try any flat base 180 grain spitzer. Avoid boat-tails unless your bore/groove diameters are under .301/.3085. If you really have feeding issues with spitzers, then go to a 180 RN. Those will probably be around until Doomsday.

BTW, in defense of all you "spritzers" ... auto correct on this board automatically "corrects" "spitzer" to "spritzer". You have to go back and fix it. It really does take a computer to screw things up. :)

[madsenshooter]

Well, if it works out... I might pay you for a few hundred cast bullets later this year!

Sorry Paul, due to restrictions on ammunition components, no interstate sales. But if you happened to be visiting Ohio we could work out something. Maybe we could dig up a trade agreement from the old Northwest Territory that would allow bullet trade to MI.

I made myself a .070" wide, .410 tall front blade to go with my 1898 sight. Actually, it's still a little taller than .410, left some to take off if needed.

[psteinmayer]

I used to shoot 180 grain Spitzers in both of my Krags... and then I switched to 165 grain boat tailed in my sporter, and 220 grain in my rifle... and have been happy with the results. I don't have a feeding problem what-so-ever. I'm not opposed to a 180 grain RN, but I'm not ready to switch just yet!

I'm sure we could work it out Bob... I wouldn't worry about the interstate sales thing, because I have no intention of paying you, Mr. Santa! Heehee... but seriously, We'll figure it out. Maybe I should get into casting after all. hmmmmmm

[madsenshooter]

I'm not overly worried about interstate sales, it's just something I wanted to get out, how heavily they're trying to regulate things. Can't get the guns, go after the ammo, can't get the ammo, go after the components, right down to the base metals. Along those lines I expect to see hunting with lead bullets to be made unlawful everywhere in the US eventually, and it's all a bunch of poor science. If elemental lead was so toxic, I'd be dead by now.