Is there such a thing as a Marine O3 A3

[Truman]

I'm enjoying the articles about the USMC O3s. Why is there no interest in a USMC A3s/ Surely there are some to be had. Would they have the same traits?

[Art]

My understanding:

There are some, there are not many and they do not have the same "traits."

From Dick Culver:

"Use of the M1903A3s and M1903A4s in the Marine Corps...While the Corps. obviously acquired some of the 03A3s and by inference the 03A4s, I never saw any of them in service. Brucen Canfield in his new (and quite exellent book on the M1903s) mentions the Corps desiring to convert the Marine Corps sniping effort to using the M1903A4 due to dissatisfaction with the performance of the Unertl 8X (actually 7.8X, but who's calibrating?) Sniper Scope. It seems that the extremely wet/damp weather in the South Pacific had rendered many of the unsealed Unertls useless. Bruce speaksof a Marine Coprs document that intended to replace the venerable M1903A1s equipped with Unertls with the new Army M1903A4s (the scope replacement was not mentioned.) While this document DID exist it had an interesting proviso, that the changeover was to be done AFTER the existing stocks of Unertls were exhausted. As I have stated before, the Corps is and was extremely frugal (translate "cheap") and the Korean fracas overtook the logical chain of events. The Corps never ran out of Unertls (they were still using them on the Model 70s in the early sniping efforts in Vietnam,) and the climate of Korea was more to the liking of the Unertl, and they were used quite effectively. As far as I know, the Coprs never put the M1903A4s to use in a sniping role."

It should be remembered that while the M1903A3 was being adopted the Marines were transitioning to the M1 weapon and there would have been no need to issue '03A3s during the transition as the Corps had lots of '03s on hand. The Corps also, and I'll be corrected by former Marines if I'm wrong, hates anything non uniform. they usually don't change over until they can make a 100% change in a given unit.

[jgaynor]

In Feb 44 the Commandant of the Marine Corps directed the Quartermaster that the undelivered portion of the Unertl sniper scope contract be cancelled. The second sentence in the order actually stated "Upon exhaustion of depot stocks of the Unertl telescopes, please take steps to substitute the rifle U.S. cal. .30 M1903A4 (Sniper's) equipped with Sight, Telescopic Assembly (Weaver 330C)." However, in October of the same year there is a technical report detailing certain problems with the M73B1 scope (the Army's standard for the M1903A4). So it would appear that the USMC did take delivery on some A4's and used them in combat.

Both documents are available in the file of USMC sniper correspondence offered by SRS. Some of the documents have been published or quoted in Senich, Campbell and other sources.

[the_1st_sgt]

My father, a pre war, WW2 and Korean war Marine talked about the 03A3 in not too nice of terms. He loved his pre war 03, tolerated the Garand never saying anything for or against it. When I was in high school a buddy of mine was selling his A3 price was $20 I believe). I went to his house to look at it (can't remember the manufacturer) and, after returning home, told my father I would like to purchase it. It was at that point I found out just exactly what he thought of the A3. He stated they were not accurate having 2 groove barrels (my friends had a 4 groove) and were not made well as the Springfield. He called them the "typewriter 03's" and absolutely forbid me to buy it. He also forbid me to buy an M1 Carbine, he hated them more than the A3. Of course, after I became of age, I bought both an M1 Carbine and several A3's

[CptEnglehorn]

typewriter 03s, Smith Coronas, sounds interesting.

[cplnorton]

There was a local WWII Marine in my area that said he carried a 1903A4 in the later parts of the war. I always had figured he was mistaken until I saw more evidence, including pictures of Marines carrying them.

On a side note, he told me the A4's scope was horrible in the jungle. He said it would fog up all the time. He said he was never really found of the weapon.

[Art]

There was a local WWII Marine in my area that said he carried a 1903A4 in the later parts of the war. I always had figured he was mistaken until I saw more evidence, including pictures of Marines carrying them.

On a side note, he told me the A4's scope was horrible in the jungle. He said it would fog up all the time. He said he was never really found of the weapon.

I have also heard that some M1903A4s were issued late in the war mostly due to a shortage of the USMC M1941 sniper versions of the M1903. I would also not be surprised if it was not a field expediency for which the records (if thee were any above the local unit level) have been lost.

I suspect that the '03A4 was probably the only 03A3 variant to see combat with the Marines, but I also know that with the Marines anything is possible.

[chuckindenver]

many 1903A3s saw combat service.. pictures abound all over if you look...Marines did use A3s...no special things about them, Marines also made A3s into A4s...a USMC made up A4 is in a weapons locker, SC A3, with mount attached, and the serial number stamped on the side of the base...iv held it with my own dirty hands...

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

I had a buddy who worked in optics at FLC Danang, and they had a crew working non-stop while I was there. There was something about the climate in RVN that played hell with optics and anything aluminum. The SS's used hot boxes (the smart ones anyway) when on base at Hill 55.

jt

[TDP0311]

I'm curious as to who was being issued the A3s... Besides the Scout Snipers of course. I've heard that the Rangers were known to use them for certain missions, I'm curious if the Marine Raiders were using them, or perhaps other recon units.

More likely, I'd imagine them being used by the guys that weren't infantry

[the_1st_sgt]

There were Remington typewriters around as well as Smith Corona.

[Wreck Checker]

There were Remington typewriters around as well as Smith Corona.

That would be Remington Rand; war time maker of 1911-A1s, Not the same as Remington the rifle manufacturer.

[Phil McGrath]

My father, a pre war, WW2 and Korean war Marine talked about the 03A3 in not too nice of terms. He loved his pre war 03, tolerated the Garand never saying anything for or against it. When I was in high school a buddy of mine was selling his A3 price was $20 I believe). I went to his house to look at it (can't remember the manufacturer) and, after returning home, told my father I would like to purchase it. It was at that point I found out just exactly what he thought of the A3. He stated they were not accurate having 2 groove barrels (my friends had a 4 groove) and were not made well as the Springfield. He called them the "typewriter 03's" and absolutely forbid me to buy it. He also forbid me to buy an M1 Carbine, he hated them more than the A3. Of course, after I became of age, I bought both an M1 Carbine and several A3's

Your Dad, and my Grand Dad(China, WWII, Korea, early VN). Could have been cut from the same cloth.

[the_1st_sgt]

Phil, I guess I am also cut from that cloth. When I first went into the Corps I carried an M14. Loved that rifle but after I shipped overseas I was issued an early M16 (XM16E1). I hated that bastard. No matter how clean you kept it, it would jam. Later, when I rotated home I was again issued an M14. My oldest son was recently retired from the Navy (Corpsman) due to injuries in Iraq. He carried the M4 version of the M16 and loved it however, all he hears from me is how crappy and unreliable the 16 is.

Wreck Checker, I know that the two Remington's are different but in my father's mind it was the typewriter company that made the A3