usmc trench shotgun m97 re-arsenal saa

[razors edge]

I purchased this shotgun from a vet (usmc) it's been re-arsenaled and this serial number comes up on a list of usmc trench shotguns that had been sent for repair in 1942 and issued by the usmc quarter master..I blocked the last two digit s for privacy. Serial #9453XX . What is the value? I had no idea it was listed in" combat shotguns" book when I paid $1, 100.

[James B.]

Interesting, the finish looks really nice for a gun that was rearsenaled in '42. I would have thought it would have gone back in for more service that would have shown up as wear. Is that a 4 row shield attached to the WWI bayonet lug? Also, the thickness of the stock at the wrist (from what I can see in the pics.) looks like a WWI high comb, yes/no? What is the buttplate? Need more pics. No idea of value, I'd have to hold it first but a legit WWII rebuild listed in records is well worth $1,100.
JB

[scosgt]

I am pretty sure it is a 6 row.

Without documentation, not really collectible.
With provenance like that, could be worth 4 to 5 times what you paid, in a strong market. Which it is not right now.

[razors edge]

Yes high comb with a metal butt plate and widows peak. Six row hand quard. I ran out of room when I tried to add those picture's..I have seen a few sell for big money that had not been document in U.S.M.C paper work. I believe that would count as documention?

[Tom Doniphon]

Do you have the documentation for the repair? I doubt the gun was re-arsenaled in 1942, because it was made that year, probably around Aug. - Sept. 1942.

I assume the book you mention that it is listed in is Bruce Canfield's shotgun book. That info is from the SRS records. And all the guns with serials like your's went to the USMC in Dec. 42. They likely were shipped new to the USMC. The refinish/re-arsenal of the gun was likely done well after that time, probably post WW2. And the mark on the bottom of the pistol grip looks like it might be the mark of San Antonio Arsenal mark (SAA).

[razors edge]

Yes...it is saa...may have been re-arsenaled between ww2 and maybe even Vietnam. I wrongly suggested it was done during ww2. I'm sure it was well used in the Pacific. .thanks..

[scosgt]

So do you or do you not have documentation as to the re-work?
With documentation it is a good piece.
Without it is basically a Bubba special.

[razors edge]

Saa is stamped on the stock -it's listed in a book and I never knew that documentation came with every re -arsenaled shotgun ? So basically it is a verified trench shotgun by means of the serial number being on a U.S.M.C quarter master receipt published in a respectable book and this is a "bubba"? I'm sorry but I thought that referred to a made up trench shotgun with no proof of it ever being a trench. At the very least it is a true trench shotgun. I've not seen one on any auction with that kind of verification. I seen less trench 97's get a lot of money. I also am aware that pistols, rifle's and shotguns that are ww2 u.s.m.c get a higher premium. I seriously doubt you can find one like this one for less.

[scosgt]

I think you are a bit confused.

ALL WWII 97 trench guns are easily verified as real. The fakes are --- FAKE.
Serial numbers, markings, stock configuration, trench barrel. All are pretty specific and well known.

Collectors pay top $$ for original, unaltered guns. Lots of nice shiny blue finish.
You gun MAY be a US arsenal refinish, or MAYBE NOT.
The bayonet adapter did not come with that gun. It is a WWI vintage adapter. The "fence" does not appear to be ordinance attached - the "rivets" appear to be round and domed, that is NOT what they look like from the factory or ordinance.

The SAA on the buttstock means nothing, the stock could be off a totally different gun, or stamped by anyone.

When you made your first post, I read it to say that there was documentation of it being arsenal redone. That was not correct. Yes, it started life as a US Trench Gun, and YES, many were issued to the USMC.

If it was in mint condition the inclusion of the actual serial number on a list would be of collector interest.

In the current condition, it is not of great collector interest. It is what it is, but what it is NOT is "original".

[scosgt]

BTW, the likelihood of ordinance having a WWI adapter available as parts sometime between WWII and VietNam is somewhere between slim and none. Winchester ran out of them sometime after WWI, and the early WWII guns have 6 rows but not the Pat markings.
By the time they started making m12 Trench guns, they had shifted to 4 rows, and most all spare parts would be 4 row adapters.
As well, it is generally accepted that guns that were redone have extra P proofs or prick punch marks, and it is known that during WWII 97 trench guns were redone by Winchester.

So I don't know exactly what you have there, which is why I asked you about any provenance on the rebuild.