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View Full Version : An unusual coincidence - from the 1903 forum



Dick Hosmer
11-26-2013, 11:00
This thread began on the 1903 forum, where a gentleman expressed his thoughts as to how wonderful it would be to actually have a documented family military weapon. I said that I was lucky enough to have such an item, and asked if the "long version" would be of any interest. Several people expressed interest, so here is what I'll call an unusual coincidence:

To begin, I had two wonderful mentors when I started collecting trapdoors in the 1970s, Dick Branum, whose amazing collection is now up for auction at RIA, and the late Bob Hill, who co-authored the first truly serious trapdoor book with Al Frasca in 1980. I had asked Bob about the M1884XRRB, a very rare gun which, while quite similar in appearance to the common M1888RRB, actually has a number of differences, mainly in the internal workings of the latch, and design of the front sight. 1000 were made, but nearly all were rebuilt/upgraded to the later "production" arm. Bob said I'd probably never find one, but that he had a set of the metal parts (obtained from Martin Retting) and would put together a representative "wall-hanger" for me, price to be determined by how it came out, but not to exceed $1000. I said, go ahead, and was very pleased with the results (it had ended up at $950). End of story? Not quite.

A few years later, I had a 'phone call from another friend who made annual trips to upstate New York, visiting family and picking up stuff to sell. He'd found a RB trapdoor, which he said was "strange" in that it lacked a front sight, and part of the latch. I asked him the serial number, and he said "300,000 something, I don't know, I'll show it to you in a couple of weeks." Of course, he was describing an 84XRRB, which he had gotten for next to nothing, and was very happy to sell to me for $325. When I saw the rifle, I immediately knew it was "right" (you cannot fake the stock of that model by modifying something else, as there is more wood than any possible donor, in two very obvious places). By now, SRS was on the scene, and I soon discovered that the rifle (318991) was listed - this is hugely important, not just to be listed, but listed as the rare model. It definitely deserved to have the latch and sight restored (everything else was very nice, and complete) and so I did so, using parts from my wall-hanger, and a couple of bits from Dixie, who, in those days still had some original rare parts. Before anyone asks, I sold the "wall-hanger" years later (with full disclosure!) for more than I'd paid for both rifles, plus the few parts.

I ordered a letter from SRS (Frank Mallory was alive then of course) and it came with copies of a period document listing the person to whom it had been issued, some scores, and tabulations of how many times it had been fired, etc. - also noting that it had been returned to SA for work on the sights. This explained the (just slightly nicer than the rest of the rifle) Buffington sight, and the double cartouches [SWP/1885] [SWP/1887] and the double ℗s! The rifle had been issued to one Captain William Cheney Manning of the 23rd Infantry, stationed at Ft. Mackinac during 1886-87. He must have been a shooting enthusiast as issuance of a rifle to an officer would have been unusual. He was from Maine, and had had a distinguished CW record, twice wounded, etc. He could have retired but chose to stay in the service, at reduced rank.

To close this off, I have Manning ancestors from Maine, but could not (using the LDS on-line data - which has to be treated with some caution!) for a long time, make a positive connection. From various clues, including references to the identical tiny village in the UK appearing in both US and British archives, I was pretty sure I had the right Manning family, but was missing (only) the immigrant generation. Finally, after a long search, finding a previously overlooked second marriage in the late 1500s, I was able to establish what appears to be a solid lineage - so, I honestly believe that I have my cousin's rifle!

Dan Shapiro
11-27-2013, 07:32
Fascinating story!

John Sukey
11-27-2013, 11:43
You certainly got lucky!

Just as an aside, the really rare trapdoors are the ones in .30 calibre. They were numbered alphabeticley. Used for testing the 30-40 cartridge.

Dick Hosmer
11-27-2013, 02:16
Have had two chances at a .30. When the sporterized one turned up at a small country auction-house in MA about 10/15 years ago, I was quick-hammered on a phone bid, during an auction that I now believe to have been if not rigged, certainly run "sympathetically to the locals". It was purchased by the Friends of SA and donated to the museum; so I cannot be too upset. Second chance was the one that C. W. Slagle had about three years ago, which had some phony parts (of which he was aware) so the price was cheap at $6500. I just couldn't make myself pull the trigger. It ("D") was ultimately purchased by Hayes Otoupalik, who had the correct parts, so it is now in proper shape. I doubt that there will be a third opportunity, especially since I no longer have the funds for such adventures. .30 Rifle "D" will be pictured in my forthcoming book.

Mark Daiute
11-29-2013, 04:27
Great story, improved upon by the Maine Connection.

Fred
11-29-2013, 12:08
That's pretty Neat Dick!

CPC
12-11-2013, 11:30
Arrrgh... every time I see a picture of Dick's Mackinac gun I get a bad feeling. I have always wanted a rifle documented to Fort Mackinac or one of the other two forts located in the straits area. I was born and raised in the area and had a relative who was stationed at the fort during the early 1800's. I'm always on the look out for one. Dick, as always thanks for posting. I can understand why he was a shooter, there was not much else to do on the island in the 1800's.
Regards,
CC

mannparks
12-12-2013, 09:18
Thanks for that story Dick, you know the more ya mess around with this stuff the more ya learn.
Thanks

Matt K.
12-30-2013, 12:05
The "soldiers" manning the fort today on Mackinac Island (a great place to visit, BTW) are still armed with real trapdoors. I can't say they are original to the fort, but there are (or were) a number of trapdoors (including former Detroit Board of Commerce rifles) in storage with the Michigan National Guard.

CPC
01-08-2014, 08:56
Matt, roger that... Al Frasca had one a few years ago that I almost purchased but the timing was not right... actually I think it was sold before I saw it on the site... I hardly make it to the fort anymore but usually shoot over a couple of times a year drink a few beers, check out the sail boats, or the end of season sales..