My long trek to an 1871 Springfield Rolling Block

[w10085]

Here is my long, but hopefully entertaining and slightly educational, Remington Rolling Block Story. I collect US Military rifles so when I discovered the US Model 1871 Springfield-made Rolling Block rifle, I really wanted one. Unfortunately I did not want it enough to concentrate on getting one. I also did not want one $2000 bad. I then figured out the New York State 1871 Rolling Block was very close, still a US National Guard rifle, and was a lot cheaper. I found a few for about $650 which was a reasonable price for me. (I also wanted one to shoot because I like to shoot as much as I like to collect). It was also in the same .50-70 caliber as my Model 1868 Trapdoor. The trouble was, I never had $650 to spend when I found one for that price.

Here is where I messed up. I figured I could just get a foreign-contract Remington just as a shooter and be happy that I had a representative piece. I found an interesting one on an auction site that was advertized as having a “shiny bore” for about $350. I had the money so I bought it. It arrived and really did have a shiny bore……. just no rifling at all………. Well here I am with an unshootable rifle that is not really what I collect. I sold a few things, including the shot out Rolling Block and decided I would be ready and get a NYS the next time a good one came around. Now all I could find were running in the $900-1000 range.

I finally figured out that I should buy what I really wanted, a US military rolling block in .50-70. I cashed in my chips and took a loss of the original rolling block I bought since I described the bore condition properly. I was patient and found a NYS 1871 for a little over $700 and bought it. I’m happy and this should be the end of the story. Only that two weeks ago, I find a Model 1871 Springfield Rolling Block on an auction site for $850. Now I don’t really have the money for this one but I can’t let this one get away at that price. I bid and figured I would get blown away before the auction ended. As it turned out, nobody was looking for one then and I got it for less than $900 shipped. Happy Thanksgiving to me!!!

The smart thing would be to now sell the NYS to recoup the money I really didn’t need to spend. The problem is they look so good together. In the pictures, the Springfield is typically on the top and the NYS is on the bottom. The Springfield is a two band rifle while the NYS is a three band. The barrel diameter of the NYS is smaller than the Springfield. An 1873 bayonet will fit over the NYS barrel but won’t fit over the front sight! The Springfield barrel is the same diameter as my 1868 Trapdoor. The receiver shape is a little different. The rear sights are different.

I’ve read Dick Hosmer’s book several times on the 1871but I have some questions on the rolling blocks:

1 )How do I identify a correct NYS bayonet?
2) What slings would be appropriate for each one of the rifles?
3) Is either of the cleaning rods correct? The NYS looks good but it looks too short. It threads in though so it is not just chopped off.
4) Mr. Hosmer’s book said the 1871 was bought with National Guard money so they were used by them instead of the regular army. Which states used the 1871’s and roughly how long were they used before they were replaced by the Model 1873/1884/1888?
5) Is the stamping on the NYS buttplate contemporary with its New York service? I assume 8th Regiment, Company E, rifle 29?
6) I don’t see many Springfields change hands on the auction sites. What should I insure this rifle for?

I’ll post some more questions later on 50-70 cartridge boxes and the like to complete my set.

I appreciate Mr. Hosmer’s book but it sure gives me way too many thinks to put on the “hopeful” list for my collection!!!! If you write another book I’m sure I will go broke!

[w10085]

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[w10085]

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[Dick Hosmer]

Congratulations! Sorry to be leading you astray.

(1) Cannot help with the NYS bayonet
(2) Slings were slings, there is no specific correct model.
(3) The NYS rod appears to be correct - they are simply not long enough to clean the bore from one end. The rod in the Springfield is either totally incorrect or badly mangled past the point of salvage. It should have a single-shoulder rod of M1868 style, which is nominally flush with muzzle when snapped behind the keeper (unlike Remington-made RB rods, it does not screw in).
(4) I do not have that info; but, they were not issued to regular troops - in fact, since many really nice ones have survived, I suspect that a lot never were issued at all.
(5) I would presume so, and your reading of the marking IS the usual interpretation, but I know nothing of the NYS TOE, so cannot comment as to it being a 'fit'.
(6) I'd suggest $1500 (at least $1200) to give yourself some negotiating leeway

[sdkrag]

Good story. I have one about my NY pattern rolling block.

In 1918 my 76 year old great grandfather (same first name as mine) moved from south Chicago to a purchased homestead in N.D.. He took a surplus 50-70 complete with bayonet with him for a farm gun. After his death my grandfather held the rifle until he moved to S.D. and left it with his brother-in-law on the ranch. Now the rifle was out of the bloodline in the possession of my uncle who treasured it. I remember it standing in the corner of the bedroom (bayonet mounted) for years. Ten years ago my uncle died and my cousin inherited that rifle and his dad's 92 Winchester. I had become a military collector and Indian Wars re-enactor but had come to the conclusion that I would never own that rifle.

Fast forward to 2006. My two sons and I were at my cousins antelope hunting. Before leaving on Monday we were in the gun shop and I was looking at the rolling block on the wall. My cousin told me to take it down the rifle and bring it over. He told me to tell him what I knew about it. He then told us that it meant a lot because of his dad. Then he stated that he and his wife had talked about it and decided that the rifle belonged with me and my sons, and handed me the rifle.

It shoots great and marches well.

P.S. The bayonet has a shorter socket than the trapdoor, 2 5/8 vs. 3". The other big differences in the width of the sight slot 1/4 trapdoor, 5/16 rolling block. Mine has no markings that I can see. Hope that helps.

[w10085]

Thanks for the bayonet info SDKRAG. I'll have to keep a lookout for an unmarked socket bayonet and just see.

As always, thanks for the info Mr. Hosmer. I really have enjoyed your book and maybe I can add a few more examples to my collection. I understand that slings are consumables and almost anything used by about 1890 would be correct on the NYS. I have one sewed Trapdoor sling on my 1874 vintage 1873. Would the two band rifles like the 1868 and 1870 have started out using Civil War slings?. Did these 50-70's get passed to the Militia and National Guard units as they got replaced by 1873's for the Regular Army?

[Dick Hosmer]

My understanding is that there was no new sling adopted until long after the two-band design was standardized, so I'm sure CW items, some repaired, were used.

The .50-70 rifles were also used by all manner of lower tier personnel, including packers, teamsters, etc. Ammunition was loaded at FA into the early '80s, and was purchased from commercial suppliers into the 1890s.