1903 Remington Questions!

[jerrbear]

Just bought this yesterday and have a few questions for the experts here. Is there a difference between a 1903 Remington and a "modified"? Answer I have seen is not really clear. This gun has some mixture of parts but I will let you folks point those out , good or bad. End of stock has a flaming bomb on it and looks to have 4 inspection marks in front of the trigger guard. Notice the NS bolt in it. Please explain this. Most parts have a R on them. Could not send any more pics as my file upload is full. Let me know what you think as I am new to this 03. Barrel is dated 11-42.

[chuckindenver]

rifle pictured is a parts gun, stock is suspect.. all Remington 1903s are 1903 Modified..

[John Beard]

All Remington M1903 rifles are properly considered as "Modified". No "modified" distinction exists between early and late rifles.

I note the following in the photos:

(1) The bolt assembly has been replaced.
(2) The rear sight assembly has been replaced.
(3) The magazine cutoff has been replaced.
(4) The trigger guard and floorplate appear to be replacements.
(5) The lower band is probably a replacement.

Everything else I can see appears correct.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[jerrbear]

A little late getting back to you, but thanks for the insight. No pic but the stock has a P in a circle with an X above it. Never seen that before. Any thoughts on that?

[Rick the Librarian]

The P in a circle shows that it successfully passed a firing proof test before acceptance. Depending on the arsenal, the P could be "bare", or in a square.

[jerrbear]

Thanks Rick, that part I understand. I was trying to figure out what the large X above the P stood for. Inspector mark normally is not that large as far as I have seen.

[twh]

The X appears on a lot of Greek returned rifles and I understand it was an inspection mark.

[John Beard]

No idea what an enlarged "X" would signify unless perhaps it might be a rack marking.

J.B.

[jerrbear]

Thanks for the replies guys. Trying to learn about this variation!

[Rick the Librarian]

IIRC it seems that there was an "X" that appeared on some or the Greek returns but I don't think it was near the circled P. I assume the X stood for the Greek letter "chi".

[Emri]

IIRC it seems that there was an "X" that appeared on some or the Greek returns but I don't think it was near the circled P. I assume the X stood for the Greek letter "chi".

The large X I've seen on Greek rifles was on the bottom of the forestock in front of the trigger guard.

[zeewad]

The "Modified" you heard about might be referring to the top of the receiver bridge. Remington had started machining for the 03A3 rear sight dovetail before it was ready to use. As a result, they ground off the dovetail on the top of the bridge, front and back, where the dovetail had originally been machined. Then they just used the 03 sights to keep production going. I have one of those.

[dave]

Did the early Rem 03's ever have the lighting cuts on rear sight base? Never saw one.

[Rick the Librarian]

Yes, they did, I've seen them as high as the 3,040,000 range. Example below:

http://www.fototime.com/D6B6C4431C97F1B/standard.jpg

[jerrbear]

You have such a collection. Could you show us your Remington 1903's for comparison

[Rick the Librarian]

Which ones? Actually, the "best" were the 60-70 original ones I had a chance to see (and photograph) about five years ago. I took over 400 photographs! Like an alcoholic being given the keys to the liquor store!! :D

I have 3,003,256 (pictured above), 3,024,801, 3,051,437 and 3,283,084.

[jerrbear]

Would love to see some Rem 03 porn! I am sure I am not alone.

[Rick the Librarian]

Without doubt the greatest exposure to Remington M1903 porn was my trip to examine a large number of original Remington M1903s about five years ago. There were a number of crates and we opened two of them, one with eight rifles the other with 12. These crates had been sealed since the British packed them up about 1954-55. I take NO responsibility for anyone's drool short-circuiting their computer keyboard!! :D

http://www.fototime.com/E2184C643AD3FE0/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/14F477C09FAF6CD/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/BD90BD3630F24C9/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/7D8F598197ACB5D/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/63A7B4667A40D4B/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/6EC117542760A28/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/A02139196C221EE/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/109A3808EF29E50/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/E6DB9411DE8DC93/standard.jpg

[Rick the Librarian]

Two more:

http://www.fototime.com/4173CCA601DA55D/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/8F7E120DFE4DFC9/standard.jpg

[TDP0311]

That is so damn cool... The Red Star 1903s are as incredible a find as any.

Rick, are any of your Remington 1903s USMC ones?

[jerrbear]

OMG! You are killing me. You simply have too many. On your latest serial rifles, do they have milled or stamped butt plates?

[Rick the Librarian]

These are NOT mine!! (Dang the luck!!) I simply examined them. I do have two Red Star rifles, but the ones pictured above belong to another lucky guy! :D

[jerrbear]

Rick, What would be the correct butt plate for my rifle SN3290985, Milled or Stamped?

[John Beard]

Rick, What would be the correct butt plate for my rifle SN3290985, Milled or Stamped?

Stamped. But a milled Remington buttplate cannot be considered incorrect.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[Rick the Librarian]

As long as John Beard dropped by, I should mention that he wrote an excellent story on these Red Star rifles for an issue of "Man at Arms" a few years back. Of course he had a superlative photographer!! :D

[John Beard]

Of course he had a superlative photographer!! :D

AMEN to that!

J.B.

[Kragrifle]

The FJA cartouche on this rifle is different in some I have seen. Is this a good cartouche, or a fake? Are there different styles of cartouches on Remington 1903's as originally produced?

[Rick the Librarian]

There are "boxed" and "unboxed". We would have to see pictures of the inspection stamp to tell whether it is legitimate or not.

[jerrbear]

Rick, What inspection stamps are you looking for. No pics but there are the 4 symbols with numbers in front of the TG that you see on a Remington stock.

[Rick the Librarian]

I was referring to the FJA stamp that Kragrifle mentioned in the post before.

The markings you mention are subinspection stamps from the manufacture process. Early on, they were just that - symbols - later in Remington M1903 production (and throughout M1903A3 production), they were numbers inside geometric symbols, like squares, circles, etc. I can post sample pictures, if needed.

[jerrbear]

Do you think the FJA stamp on this rifle is legit?

[John Beard]

The "FJA" stamp on your rifle appears legitimate.

J.B.

[Dick Hosmer]

Looking at the FJA reminded me of a question I've had for years regarding the small ordnance crest, which also shows up on Krags, sometimes adjacent to a pair of large (larger than the FJA here) letters deeply stamped - "HH" and "JJ" have been noted.

Does anyone know when use of that stamp for marking stocks originated? Thanks.

[John Beard]

Looking at the FJA reminded me of a question I've had for years regarding the small ordnance crest, which also shows up on Krags, sometimes adjacent to a pair of large (larger than the FJA here) letters deeply stamped - "HH" and "JJ" have been noted.

Does anyone know when use of that stamp for marking stocks originated? Thanks.

As I recall, my earliest observation of a crossed-cannons Ordnance Escutcheon was on an M1903A1 rifle exhibiting a boxed "S.A./G.H.S." inspection stamp. But, I don't recall that the Ordnance Escutcheon was small (there are at least two different sizes). I think it was the larger escutcheon.

The early Remington M1903 rifles assembled in late 1941 exhibited the small Ordnance Escutcheon.

Hope this helps. Merry Christmas!

J.B.

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks, John - Merry Christmas to you as well.

It would seem, then, to be a mark that was applied for some official purpose, but well after the 'active' Krag era. Perhaps stateside Coast Guard, or dock/warehouse protection? I believe there are records of .45-70s being used in the Great Lakes area.

[John Beard]

Thanks, John - Merry Christmas to you as well.

It would seem, then, to be a mark that was applied for some official purpose, but well after the 'active' Krag era. Perhaps stateside Coast Guard, or dock/warehouse protection? I believe there are records of .45-70s being used in the Great Lakes area.

The crossed-cannons Ordnance Escutcheon was an official "trademark" of the U.S. Army Ordnance Dept. I am not aware of any other service branches using it. I believe the crossed-cannons Ordnance Escutcheon significantly pre-dates WWI. But its appearance on small arms didn't begin until about 1941.

Hope this helps.

J.B.