View Full Version : Current Ballpark value of an unaltered, not put together 1903 Mark I?
Do any of you guys, expert and not so expert, have any idea what the current value should be for an original Springfield Armory Model 1903 Mark I that is Not a put together rifle? I see a lot of outrageous prices placed upon rifles on Gun Broker that are nothing but a Mark I receiver with a WWII barrel, later made stock, later made hand guard, non Mark I sear and trigger, non Mark I cut off, non Mark I cut off spindle, o3A3 butt plate, stamped barrel bands, trigger guard etc, etc. These are always described as being original and rare. How sad.
However, I've seen maybe two on the market that did seem to be of original configuration and without any re inspection stamps on them. One of these had a sanded stock and hand guard. The originality and provenance of the other was unknown.
So, has anyone an idea of what the collectors value of an Original Mark I 1903 that has never had any original parts of any type ever replaced on it and that has a great bore and a few dents and dings in the original wood should be in overall Very Good condition?
Thanks guys, Fred
Any pictures you could post?
John Beard
12-03-2013, 02:35
A new unissued Mark I rifle sold a couple of years ago for close to $3,000. The price was not unreasonable.
J.B.
Wow, that certainly isn't bad for unissued! I actually saw such a Mark I selling at Cowan's Auction or very nearly new. it went for less though.
Thanks John. That was a pretty good deal in my opinion.
Any pictures you could post?
I'll post some when I return from the store in a bit.
Here are some pictures I took of it some time back.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m6.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m6.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m15-1.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m15-1.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m3.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m3.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m1.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m1.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m5.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m5.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m4.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m4.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m118.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m118.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m115.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m115.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m119.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m119.jpg.html)
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[URL="http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m111.jpg.html"]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m111.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m17-1.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m113.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m113.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m114.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m114.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m17.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m17.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m19-1.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m19-1.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m18.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m18.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m122.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m122.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m123.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m123.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m12_zpscb775d4a.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m12_zpscb775d4a.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m117.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m117.jpg.html)
My reason for asking about this is because I'm considering selling this rifle soon. If I do decide to sell it, I'll post it for sale on the WTS forum first before I put it on Gun Broker. It's an honest rifle. If John Beard or Rick or Chuck or anyone else knowledgeable can shed any light on the stamps in the stock in front of and behind the trigger guard, I'd be interested in finding out about them. I believe that they're Not WWII inspection stamps, but anyone with knowledge to the contrary is welcome to share their thoughts. Fred
Hell, your rifle is lacking something ;)
2475824759
Promo, is that yours? If so, very nice!
John Beard
12-04-2013, 02:13
Is the inspection stamp "B.H.M" or "E.H.D"? Please advise.
Thanks!
J.B.
John, it's E.H.D. in a box. E.H. Donnelly eh? Army inspector of Ordnance, Springfield Armory, 1918-1920. I got that information from an old post of yours on the subject back on April 29th of this year John.
[QUOTE=Promo;341854]Hell, your rifle is lacking something ;)
Good luck getting one of those. :evil6:
Hell, your rifle is lacking something ;)
2475824759
No kiddin brother! I'm frustrated about owning a Mark I without the device to go with it. I just can't convince my good wife that it would be a smart and solid but long term investment. Great photo's! Is the rifle, device and associated gear yours? I'm Green with envy... :D
However, using one of the several long eye relief scope mounts I have that fit right on the rear sight base of a 1903, I'd just this morning mounted my AIM Sports scope on my Mark I for some photo's I took of the arrangement to send to a fellow who is wanting to buy one of my scope mounts that haven't been manufactured for 47 years. Here are some of the photo's
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s7_zpsa0a6c447.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s7_zpsa0a6c447.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s8_zpsd45411f8.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s8_zpsd45411f8.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s2_zpsbc7fe83f.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s2_zpsbc7fe83f.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s9_zps215f6233.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s9_zps215f6233.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s3_zpsaa24fb0e.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s3_zpsaa24fb0e.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s4_zps6a8b5b40.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s4_zps6a8b5b40.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s5_zpsc8c7da11.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s5_zpsc8c7da11.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s10_zps3f6ad2bf.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s10_zps3f6ad2bf.jpg.html)
wait... is that a BAR mag made to fit your 1903?
Surely you jest? No, it and the other are not BAR magazines. Here below is a photo of a WWII sniper with a 1903-A4 who wanted to have a little more readily available ammo for his rifle and so he had someone cut the bottom out of his sheet metal floor plate and had a BAR magazine brazed onto the trigger guard. His rifle wouldn't readily accept a WWI era 25 round extension magazine that can only be attached to a 1903 Springfield. That's what the two magazines are that I've pictured.
Also, here is another photo of WWI Imperial German infantry troops in the field. Two of them are shown with the German version of an extension magazine attached to their GEW 98 rifles. Another German soldier is wearing an experimental iron faceplate.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/Springfieldsniperriflewithextensionmagazine_zpsfde 43484.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/Springfieldsniperriflewithextensionmagazine_zpsfde 43484.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/Grabenmagazin2_zpse87d6c1d.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/Grabenmagazin2_zpse87d6c1d.jpg.html)
Yes it is mine. I do have an additional M1903 Mark I rifle which it came originally with.
John Beard
12-05-2013, 12:38
I value your rifle in the $1000-$1500 range.
The markings in the stock are believed to be Navy rack markings.
According to Brophy and Campbell, "E.H.D." is Elbert H. Dewey. Now you must choose who to believe! :icon_scratch:
Hope this helps.
J.B. :hello:
Well I sure do appreciate that information John! That price range is just what I was figuring it was and it's what I have in it. I didn't buy it to sell for a profit though and so I was happy and I still am to finally have an honest one. Heck, knowing the Navy association makes me want to keep it now. That bit of information finally explains why there's a small BB39 stamped into the heel just forward of the butt plate tang.
Nah... just kidding. I wonder though if the H is an indication of the ship it could've served on.
Using logic, I believe that I'll go with E.H. Donnelly.
Thanks again John!
Rick the Librarian
12-05-2013, 07:52
I've got a complete and correct Mark I (less the PD, of course!!) - I'll try to post some pictures, after I take some better ones than I currently have. Curiously, the only non-correct part is a CC (Commercial Controls) extractor. No inspection stamp on the stock, either, but I've been told that wasn't that unusual.
http://www.fototime.com/E578EA83AA13DE2/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/074C44491875918/standard.jpg
My Mk I is 4385 numbers off from yours Rick. My barrel date is 1-19. What is the date on yours?
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/MkI02_zpsf37ef51c.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/MkI02_zpsf37ef51c.jpg.html)
Rick the Librarian
12-05-2013, 10:33
1-19 SA aussi!
http://www.fototime.com/7F1718C8E094B2A/standard.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/m111.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/m111.jpg.html)
Yep, the same month.
Fred, I had no idea that a 1903 mag ever existed... I'll have to do some reading about them.
I figure that was why I was able to buy the two that I did on Gun Broker for so little. Nobody else put a bid on them because most people might not know about them and the man selling them thought that they were reproductions on the advice of someone who was thinking about the current reproduction German Mauser extension magazines. I knew that nobody was or had ever been making new U.S. 1903 Extension magazines and so I was able to buy both of them together for $120.00
Because they were used on the U.S. Air Service Rifle, people have erroneously insisted on calling them exclusively an air service magazine. However they were meant to be used whenever the need presented itself. Trench warfare, sniping, picket duty too when a surprised picket guard under close attack might require a lot of ammunition to be readily available to fire until assistance could arrive. Anyway, you can find them under the various names of Springfield Extension Magazine, Trench Magazine, Air Service Magazine, 1903 Springfield 25 Round Magazine, even mistakenly as a 20r Round Extension Magazine. There is still one for sale on Gun Broker I believe going for $500.00. It's being called a U.S.1903 Springfield Air Service 25-rnd Magazine I believe. Here is the link... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=379599358
I've seen them priced at $300.00 to $500.00 and if they come in the original white colored cardboard box, they can be seen priced for anywhere from $500.00 to $1,100.00.
Rick the Librarian
12-05-2013, 07:08
Here are some more pictures of my Mark I - not the greatest pictures, due to the dark day. The rifle doesn't have much finish, as you can tell. I did forget that it does have an inspection stamp, a DAL. It sports a J5 bolt.
http://www.fototime.com/2A870A7442A8CDC/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/8EEBC6ABA5B534B/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/B127D2001FAC853/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/39EF18A4913B511/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/B1901FADB8F6DB6/standard.jpg
Fred, very interesting, and a great find on your part! I'm surprised that magazines on main battle rifles didn't catch on with this, as I'm sure the troops that had them found them useful.
I'm going to keep me eyes open for them from here on out, thanks for sharing.
Tim, my guess as to why everybody didn't have one of the magazines is because they really make the rifle heavy when fully loaded and they also get in the way. It's tough to keep the rifle low to the ground in the prone position also when it has the magazine attached. I wouldn't use one myself. I think that they're just for looks and collectability.
Here are some more pictures of my Mark I - not the greatest pictures, due to the dark day. The rifle doesn't have much finish, as you can tell. I did forget that it does have an inspection stamp, a DAL. It sports a J5 bolt.
http://www.fototime.com/2A870A7442A8CDC/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/8EEBC6ABA5B534B/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/B127D2001FAC853/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/39EF18A4913B511/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/B1901FADB8F6DB6/standard.jpg
Rick, I just noticed that my follow up post to your pictures never went through! You've got a great looking and honest Mark I Rick! It's one of the very few that I've ever seen that is original as well as correct.
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