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11mm
12-09-2013, 01:59
I recently purchased a ramrod bayonet Trapdoor. It has a trap in the buttstock, so I imagine some tools were kept there. Since Dick has not published his book yet, and since I have come not to trust too much of the information on the web, I am asking the question here as to what was contained therein. The rifle is a solid specimen and a great shooter, I would like to complete it, if possible.
JimF
12-09-2013, 03:02
The M'88 RRB rifle had the Model 1879 combination tool, a headless shell extractor, and the most elusive of all . . . The wiper that screwed on the end of the RRB. --Jim
11mm
12-09-2013, 06:00
I have two headless shell extractors, one of which is definitely not for the trapdoor...I think it is for the Krag, and the other, more likely one, won't quite screw on to the end of the RRB...if that's how it was used. I do have the 1879 tool. Can someone provide a picture of the wiper? I am not likely to find one, but would like to know what to look for. Thanks for the info.
Dan Shapiro
12-09-2013, 07:29
Al isn't able to keep them in stock for very long...............

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/TrapdoorTips.html
Dick Hosmer
12-09-2013, 08:52
I have two headless shell extractors, one of which is definitely not for the trapdoor...I think it is for the Krag, and the other, more likely one, won't quite screw on to the end of the RRB...if that's how it was used. I do have the 1879 tool. Can someone provide a picture of the wiper? I am not likely to find one, but would like to know what to look for. Thanks for the info.

Are you sure? - there are two totally different HSEs for the TD. The first, from 1877 is a four-pronged affair of spring steel, which is shoved in from the back of the chamber and supposed to hook onto the front edge of a separated case and be rammed out from the muzzle. The second type, from 1882 is two pieces, threaded together, tube shaped, with rifling scrapers molded on the outside. It is to be dropped in from the muzzle, followed by the smaller piece, which expands the larger one by being pounded with the rod, and all is forced out the rear.
11mm
12-10-2013, 04:38
No, Dick, I was not sure. Thanks for the information. Looks like the extractors I have are for other rifles, though I do have a four pronged spring steel unit which may be the 1877 type. I don't want to try it out . A look at Mallory and at Brophy indicate there never really was broken shell extractor issued for the Krag.
11mm
12-10-2013, 04:44
Al isn't able to keep them in stock for very long...............

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/TrapdoorTips.html

Thanks. Now I know what to look for.

Subsequent searches in my "appendages " box yielded the correct headless extractor as shown on the page you referenced . Now all I have to find is the wiper...and from what has been said, that looks like "fat chance".
Dan Shapiro
12-10-2013, 07:41
Check Al's website on a regular basis. He comes up with at least one or two wipers a year, but as I said, they don't last long.
Dick Hosmer
12-10-2013, 08:02
EBay and Gunbroker are other options. The wiper tips have been reproduced, so look out for any minty ones - you'll want something with a bit of grunge and a couple of scratches.

Question wasn't asked, but the other trap stuffers are:

M1877 Carbine (early): 3 x 8.25" rods and prong HSE (wraps around center rod)

M1880 Experimental rod-bayonet rifle: Prong HSE, M79 tool, wiper tip

M1877 Carbine (later, incl. M1884) 3 x 8.25" rods and M1882 HSE (on top of center rod - hole is deeper)

M1884 Experimental rod-bayonet rifle: M1882 HSE, M79 tool, wiper tip

M1886 XC (24") Experimental carbine: 3 x 9.25" rods and M1882 HSE (on top of center rod - hole is deeper)

"M1888" RBR: M1882 HSE, M79 tool, wiper tip
Crispy
12-10-2013, 09:33
Take a close look at the threaded end of your ramrod / bayonet.
I searched high and low for a wiper and when I finally found one I'll be darned if I could'nt screw it on because some nimrod buggered up the threads.
They are NOT standard threads either.
It took quite an effort to re-cut and shape them using a jewelers file, but I did finally get the wiper to screw on.
11mm
12-10-2013, 09:50
The threads on mine look a bit dicey, but the ramrod does screw into the holder in the stock. However, when and if I find the wiper, I will have to be careful if I try to screw it on. I take it for granted that threads on firearms are never going to be standard, and I have quite a large collection of taps and dies.
Dick Hosmer
12-10-2013, 11:23
Am confused by statement re "ramrod does screw into the holder in the stock". What holder?

I thought we were talking about "M1888" rod bayonets - did we switch rifles?

They don't screw in - in fact, the Model 1866 .50-70 was the last model of TD to have a screw-in rod; everything after that "snaps" in in some fashion, though the four rod-bayonets are threaded for the wiper tip (but not for the HSE, a popular misconception).
JimF
12-10-2013, 12:13
Could be that the wiper SHOULD be attached to the RRB when one attempts to remove a headless shell . . . In order to AVOID buggering up the threads (as in Crispy's case).

I'd wager the soldier was instructed to use the HSE with the bayonet point down the bore FIRST . . . But we all know someone would invariably use it with the threaded end in first!
11mm
12-10-2013, 02:11
Am confused by statement re "ramrod does screw into the holder in the stock". What holder?

I thought we were talking about "M1888" rod bayonets - did we switch rifles?

They don't screw in - in fact, the Model 1866 .50-70 was the last model of TD to have a screw-in rod; everything after that "snaps" in in some fashion, though the four rod-bayonets are threaded for the wiper tip (but not for the HSE, a popular misconception).
Dick-You are right. I thought I felt it screw in, but it does not. I just checked. It just stuck in there a little bit like it was being held by a thread.