XM162 Shotgun Ammunition

[Svensson]

Recently I have managed to acquire a variety of XM162 shotgun ammunition, ranging from the early Vietnam era to the 1980s.

This is an early 10 round box, manufactured by the Federal Cartridge Corporation.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3671/11441053014_10447c3c87_z.jpg

This box is not dated. I have tentatively dated it based on the rounds it contained, which are the earliest style that I know of. I took a round out and photographed it before resealing the box.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2822/11441096453_1127d362b8.jpg
The early ammunition was essentially just repackaged civilian ammunition.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5518/11440967234_b6f29ae73b.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2842/11441008766_279630645f.jpg
The earliest cartridges had roll crimps rather than star crimps. It is my understanding that the change was made in the mid 1960s.

This next box was also manufactured by the Federal Cartridge Corporation. Though it is labeled XM162, it contains experimental XM257 shells. Later iterations of the XM257 shell were produced in subdued colors with darkened brass.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3739/11441102283_738c5c43a1_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7312/11441012146_1983be7452_z.jpg

Later boxes were packaged wrapped in a foil package. The earliest I have seen was dated 1964. This example, manufactured by the Olin Mathieson Chemical Corporation, is dated 1967.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5512/11441015206_8ea5b18f5c_z.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3701/11441103733_38d83217d7.jpg

Federal continued to manufacture ammunition for the government throughout the conflict. This 10 round box is dated 1970.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3715/11440936975_7c681599d9_z.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3814/11440937455_09cd7e8e6f.jpg

[Svensson]

This box of XM162 ammunition is among the last manufactured before the fall of Saigon.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7356/11441013756_5aa1527f8f_z.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5547/11440975094_eb4327a9f3.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2819/11440936285_3a5c140855.jpg

There appears to be something on the back of this package? Perhaps something the former owner of this placed on there before sealing it in plastic? Anyone know what to make of that?

This last box is postwar. My suspicions of this were initially due to the more complicated lot number when compared to the other examples, and were confirmed by a date stamp of 1980 on the interior flap of the box. I photographed a round of this ammunition and resealed the box. It is nearly identical to modern civilian buckshot manufactured by Olin.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5501/11441014836_1df2ce4d41_z.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3761/11441098843_2fa4cb7114.jpg
This round has a standard star crimp.

If anyone else has any images or information about to the XM162, XM257, or XM258 ammunition, I would love to see it.

[James B.]

Svensson. Congrats on the haul of XM162 boxes. The Fed. boxes are hard to positively date. Your's marked 1-6, I've got Fed. "LOT FC 1-7" sealed and dated on the foil wrapper "March 1970", also have "LOT FC 1-9" dated October 1969. Just looked again and found a box "LOT FC 1-5" dated March 1970. Unless the lots were not produced in sequence or maybe the dates are when the wrappers were produced.
The box with the #4B rounds was oppened at some point and the shells swapped. I've opened more than one "sealed" cardboard box (not in foil wrapper) and found all sorts of mixed up shells. It's fairly easy to open the cardboard boxes and reglue the top down.
The box with the black bar on the back is like a box of sealed in wrap #4B XM257 I have marked "LOT WCC-60-1". The date is confusing in that it has a "UNION CAMP CORP." stamp in black ink dated JUN.-74 and a red ink stamp "LUDLOW CORPORATION PACKAGING DIVISION MARVELSEAL" dated 1-74. The shells are black plastic, ribbed with green printing on shells and darkened brass. No idea what the bar is for; it's inked on, not a sticker, like they blacked out some markiings.
Got lots of pics. may have time to upload then post here over hollidays.
Hope this helps, James B.

[Svensson]

Thanks, James. I am also completely in the dark about the lot numbers. None of them really seem to correspond to any particular date. I think the only way to positively ID them is to open them up and look at the shells, and even then you only know if they are early or late war.


It's fairly easy to open the cardboard boxes and reglue the top down.

I'm definitely with you on that. That's how I've been doing it since I started collecting these to see what's inside. If you go in through the bottom it's impossible to tell if they've been opened. Can't figure out why someone would open it up and switch them all, though. :icon_scratch: That's why I figure it might've been a packing mistake.

Looking at the blacked out area on the last box, I think you are right. It definitely looks like ink. Maybe they made a mistake in printing the packages so they inked over it and re-stamped the other side?

Would definitely like to see the pics of the XM257 shells in you collection. What's the maker? Federal is the hardest to find. I believe the switch from the red hulls to the black hulls with darkened brass took place around 1968-1969.

Best,
Alex

[James B.]

Alex
All my XM257 boxes are WCC. Never seen a box of FCs for sale or otherwise. I haven't posted pics. here in a while so this may not work. Here's the box of WCC 60-1 with the two different dates:
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/JWBCollections/Ammo/VietnamXM257WCC_zpsb581f6a7.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/JWBCollections/Ammo/XM257Dates_zps1f7102ae.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/JWBCollections/Ammo/WCCXM257Date_zps2a5dfcd8.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/JWBCollections/Ammo/VietnamXM257CaseMarkings_zpsd9f18e1c.jpg

Haven't figured out how to get pics. to show up in post, links should work though.
More on the way.
James B.

[James B.]

This is a can of post Vietnam (around '81 - '82) WCC XM257. The backs are clean and have no blacked out area:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/JWBCollections/Ammo/PostVietnamXM2574B_zps624894d5.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/JWBCollections/Ammo/XM2574BFullCan_zps1d077daa.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/JWBCollections/Ammo/DateampMarkings_zps6c5a7429.jpg

[James B.]

Alex
This last can, also full, is one I really got lucky on. Walked up on this at a show a couple of years back. XM257 WCC 1-1. Dates are 1970:
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/JWBCollections/Ammo/WCC-1-1XM2574B70_zps166dc587.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/JWBCollections/Ammo/WCC-1-1XM2574B703_zps7dcd8ed9.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/JWBCollections/Ammo/WCC-1-1XM2574B705_zps60ea5613.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/JWBCollections/Ammo/WCC-1-1XM2574B707_zpsf32fcc81.jpg

Hope these links work, I'll have to read up on how to put pics. in posts.
James B.

[Svensson]

Awesome collection! Can't believe that you found a full 1970 XM257 can. I've never seen an XM257 can, only the XM162s. Maybe Federal didn't make any Xm257. I always just assumed that they did.

[Charlie Flick]

Gentlemen:

You guys interested in USGI shotgun ammunition might want to take a look at the related thread posted on the US Militaria Forum: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/16671-usgi-shotgun-ammunition/

Regards,
Charlie

[James B.]

Charlie. Thanks for the link. Really nice post which includes most of the rare examples of military shotshell boxes. That post should be used as a reference for new collectors. Every time I see those pics. of Ordnance's Vietnam era display I drool a little in envy. I'd like to know more about the Woodin Labs collection.
James B.

[ordnance]

Charlie. Thanks for the link. Really nice post which includes most of the rare examples of military shotshell boxes. That post should be used as a reference for new collectors. Every time I see those pics. of Ordnance's Vietnam era display I drool a little in envy. I'd like to know more about the Woodin Labs collection.
James B.

James,

Funny you mention the "drool". I was just going back through this thread and admiring that lot WC 1-1 XM257 can. That's one I'd sure like to own, too. Very nice.

The Woodin Laboratories collection is basically the life's work of Bill Woodin in Tucson, and is the world's largest collection of police and military small arms ammunition up to 30mm. For anybody interested in ammunition, a visit is one for the bucket list. The variety and depth of the collection is amazing with many unique and "sole survivor" specimens. Nearly as amazing is the amount of knowledge about rare ammo that Bill has in his head ready for instant recall. Truly the original Guru of of cartridge collecting.

A quick example.......on a past visit there, I wanted to see what variations he had in German rifle grenade launching cartridges, as grenade launching stuff is another interest of mine. I have struggled to gather up maybe 6 or 7 various WWI and WWII types over the years. Sliding open a 2 1/2 foot square drawer revealed perhaps a couple hundred different types. Kind of leaves you with that......why do I even bother?.....feeling about your collection.

[Clark Howard]

In Vietnam, circa 1970, I was issued brass-cased 00 buck rounds in a brown paper box marked WCC. Does anyone have any idea how old these cartridges were at that time, or how they might have made their way to Vietnam? Regards, Clark

[James B.]

Clark. The last version of all brass shells were put into production very late in WWII. It is thought that very few if any actually made it into the field before the war's end. The all brass shells you were issued in Vietnam (thanks for your service by the way) were probably left over from WWII production or made shortly after WWII. Were these boxes you mentioned 10 or 25 rd.? Also were the markings like those on known WWII boxes?

Ordnance. Thanks, that one's a centerpiece in my Vietnam era shell collection. Those flechettes, man oh man, I'd sure like to get hold of a box of those. You must have gotten into this field really early. Do you know if Bill Woodin has, or has plans to write a book on his research into this field? If so I'd be interested in a copy.
James

[Clark Howard]

James- Thanks for your enlightening response concerning my question. The shells I inquired about were packed in a 25 round brown box. The unit I was assigned to was a successor to one of the first Air Force units assigned to Vietnam. I have since surmised that this ammunition had been moved around the Western Pacific since at least Korea, and maybe as far back as WWII. I know that the Filipino security people at Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines used brass cased 12 ga. ammo in Winchester Model 97 shotguns during the same period. Regards, Clark