Identity of cartridge in SAW/PI display?

[Rick the Librarian]

My friend Victor picked this display box up at a recent gunshow. From the buttons and pictures, it dates from the Spanish-American War and/or Philippine Insurrection. One question he had was the identity of the cartridge. Obviously not a Krag - possibly a Trapdoor 45-70? He put a dummy 30-06 next to it for comparison.

http://www.fototime.com/7DB61AD18AF44E5/standard.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

I believe it is the .43 Spanish - with the so-called "Reformado" brass bullet, thought by some to be poisonous in a wound.

[JBinIll]

Hosmer hit the nail on the head,Spanish Reformado-

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p529/OldGussie/IMG_3856.jpg

Here's a comparison,the Reformado on the left,.43 Remington Spanish on the right-

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p529/OldGussie/IMG_3864.jpg

[Rick the Librarian]

Excellent! That would have been my next guess. Thanks, gentlemen!!:icon_salut:

[jon_norstog]

I'd recognize the .43 Spanish anywhere, having fired thousands of rounds of it in my misspent youth. The rolling block was probably the Philippine and Cuban revolutionary armies' most numerous firearm, though I always assumed they used the standard chambering rather than the "reformado." Thanks for the photo. I hope the moderator will leave this post on the Krag forum, for the sake of the tie-in to the Philippine-American War.

jn

[JBinIll]

The Spanish were not satisfied with the performance of the original Remington bottle necked cartridge of 1869-11X57R(.433) in cartridge collector parlance.So they experimented and came up with the "Reformado" Model 1871/89-11.4x57R(.449).The original .43 Spanish is almost identical to the .44-77 Remington sporting round with the exception of the bullet/bore diameter.By most accounts it was a pretty good sporting round.

[Rick the Librarian]

I'd recognize the .43 Spanish anywhere, having fired thousands of rounds of it in my misspent youth. The rolling block was probably the Philippine and Cuban revolutionary armies' most numerous firearm, though I always assumed they used the standard chambering rather than the "reformado." Thanks for the photo. I hope the moderator will leave this post on the Krag forum, for the sake of the tie-in to the Philippine-American War.

jn

That is why I posted the picture on this forum - I felt it came closest to the SAW, vs. say, the ammo forum. Thanks again! I relayed the information to Victor.

[JBinIll]

Rick,if he ever takes the buttons out of the frame,check the makers marks on the backs.Some Spanish military buttons of that vintage were made by American companies such as Scovill.There are also Philippine manufactured ones known with a Manila back mark.

[RickM]

Pretty neat display..... im debating on adding some saw medals and buttons to my kraig collection. We dont make cool looking stuff like that anymore..... even our high falutin medals take a backseat in appearance to simple saw veteran medals imho

[jon_norstog]

JB.

You are right on with the comparison to the 44-77. In fact, the Argies we shot had all been broached out to .446 so they effectively **were** 44-77 and we got our best results with a big, heavy Lyman bullet designed for that caliber. I wasn't aware the Spanish used the Reformado chambering, I thought it was just the Mexicans. So the pieces fall into place.

I will say I'd rather take several hits from a 7x57 fmj than one from the .43.

jn

[JBinIll]

The "Reformado" cartridge was strictly a Spanish development by two Spanish officers,Luis Freyre and Jose Brull.Basically they straightened out the .43 Spanish Remington cartridge and enlarged the bullet diameter from 11mm to 11.4mm.Often times the Spanish issued rifles in the original caliber to militia and auxiliary troops in their colonies even after the Reformado was adopted and then the Mauser rifles.