O3 bolt question

[GBEAR1]

I have an straight handle 19o3 bolt that looks to be marked either c7 or l3 depending what is up or down . It is marked on the side of the rear lug. Can any one tell me what is the proper serial number range that this bolt goes to? Thanks in advance.

[Rick the Librarian]

When you say the "side" can you be more specific? Is it on the front of the safety lug, the top, or the bottom?

C7 was on the bottom of the safety lug, and, according to John Beard's bolt charts, was produced just before the switch to the safer forging method; I3 was marked on bolts manufactured in the 1910 period and is also the mark of a casehardened bolt; The stamp is also on the bottom of the safety lug.

Here is the link to Vishooter's website, that has John's bolt marking charts.

http://www.vishooter.net/m1903.html

[John Beard]

Hold the bolt in your hands with the locking lugs in your left hand and the handle in your right hand. Then while holding the bolt in that manner, rotate the bolt in your fingers and read the steel lot code on the bottom of the safety lug.

J.B.

p.s.,

For those interested in revealing information and like to play games, there's a hidden message in the statements above. See if you can figure out what it is. I will not disclose what it is, but I will confirm if someone discovers it.

[Kurt]

Heck, I'll take a shot at it....this will orient the bolt so the number is read correctly and not upside down.

Kurt

[John Beard]

Heck, I'll take a shot at it....this will orient the bolt so the number is read correctly and not upside down.

Kurt

That is correct. But that's not the hidden message. Take this observation to the next logical step.

J.B.

[03Rifleman]

Heat lot code can be read on bolt while remaining in receiver after opening action in the typical manner of operating bolt...

[John Beard]

Heat lot code can be read on bolt while remaining in receiver after opening action in the typical manner of operating bolt...

Nope. Good try!

J.B.

[Kurt]

That is correct. But that's not the hidden message. Take this observation to the next logical step.

J.B.

Logic be damned, I have blisters on both hands now, how long does it take for the logic to follow?. LOL. Perhaps it's as simple as identifying which part of the safety lug is the bottom (where you will find the heat lot code and read it correctly). Numerous times its described as the side, or the bottom, or the back, or the lug, all in one sentence and depending oh how you look at it.

Seeking Obama care

Kurt

[John Beard]

Logic be damned, I have blisters on both hands now, how long does it take for the logic to follow?. LOL. Perhaps it's as simple as identifying which part of the safety lug is the bottom (where you will find the heat lot code and read it correctly). Numerous times its described as the side, or the bottom, or the back, or the lug, all in one sentence and depending oh how you look at it.

Seeking Obama care

Kurt

"Logic" is a thought process, not a hand-waving exercise. So if the steel lot code is always in the same location and same orientation, what does that tell you?

www.healthcare.gov may be what you're seeking.

J.B.

[Kurt]

"Logic" is a thought process, not a hand-waving exercise. So if the steel lot code is always in the same location and same orientation, what does that tell you?

www.healthcare.gov may be what you're seeking.

J.B.

Logically it would dictate that the code is correctly read left to right when properly oriented and steel lot codes with few exceptions, consisted of an alpha letter followed by a numeric number in this location.

Healthcare.gov is illogical in concept and contrary to basic law which is supposed to be based on logic..or was at one time anyway. But, that's another topic...:(

[John Beard]

Logically it would dictate that the code is correctly read left to right when properly oriented and steel lot codes with few exceptions, consisted of an alpha letter followed by a numeric number in this location.

Healthcare.gov is illogical in concept and contrary to basic law which is supposed to be based on logic..or was at one time anyway. But, that's another topic...:(

You are correct on both counts. But the hidden message remains undiscovered. I commend you for trying!

J.B.

[Kurt]

Although I can't prove it, I think I may have distant genetics in Missouri. Final answer, the bottom of the safety lug is the safest (pun intended) place that you could put a number such as that with the least chance of it getting worn off. At least with the steel at that time.

Sigh

Kurt

[John Beard]

Although I can't prove it, I think I may have distant genetics in Missouri. Final answer, the bottom of the safety lug is the safest (pun intended) place that you could put a number such as that with the least chance of it getting worn off. At least with the steel at that time.

Sigh

Kurt

I must commend you for trying! But your last two answers wandered off on tangents that were not relevant to the immediate subject at hand. I made no suggestion that the steel lot code consisted of a letter and a number or that it was not subject to wear, although both considerations are true. The real question is: Why does it always appear in the exact same location and orientation?

[Fred]

For consistency in locating it and also for quick assessment of the type of bolt? Also, if a bolt fails and the locking lugs are sheared off, the type of bolt it is can still be assessed from the safety lug. The orientation and location of the code stamped into the safety lug allows a person holding the rifle at port arms to just lift he bolt handle and read what's stamped into the lug.

[John Beard]

For consistency in locating it and also for quick assessment of the type of bolt? Also, if a bolt fails and the locking lugs are sheared off, the type of bolt it is can still be assessed from the safety lug. The orientation and location of the code stamped into the safety lug allows a person holding the rifle at port arms to just lift he bolt handle and read what's stamped into the lug.

Nice try! Certainly the things you stated are true. But the real hidden message remains undiscovered.

J.B.

[dws123]

Tells you, that you have a single or a double heat treated bolt.

[Emri]

Why does it always appear in the exact same location and orientation?

Because they were marked during production while in place in a machine fixture.

My SWAG,

Emri

[Kurt]

Perhaps the raw billets were stamped by the supplier that provided them. I am not familiar with the actual production process but do know the numbers represented the company that supplied it and a lot number that represented the make up of the steel.

Kurt

[John Beard]

Because they were marked during production while in place in a machine fixture.

My SWAG,

Emri

Got it!!!!! You uncovered the hidden message! Congratulations!

And when the steel lot code location moved from the bottom of the safety lug to the top of the bolt handle, what does that tell you? That one should be easy.

J.B.

[Kurt]

Change to DHT method with a couple exceptions in 1918.

[John Beard]

Change to DHT method with a couple exceptions in 1918.

The changed to DHT preceded steel lot code relocation by more than a year and 300,000 bolts. Good try.

J.B.

[Kurt]

The changed to DHT preceded steel lot code relocation by more than a year and 300,000 bolts. Good try.

J.B.

So, would it be correct that the C8 and some J5 straight handle bolts were DHT and still stamped with the steel lot code on the bottom of the lug? They then moved the stamping to the top with the change to the curved handle?

[John Beard]

So, would it be correct that the C8 and some J5 straight handle bolts were DHT and still stamped with the steel lot code on the bottom of the lug? They then moved the stamping to the top with the change to the curved handle?

All C 8 bolts observed to date had straight handles and the steel lot code was stamped beneath the safety lug. The first J 5 bolts also had straight handles and the steel lot code was stamped beneath the safety lug. These were succeeded by curved-handle J 5 bolts with the steel lot code stamped beneath the safety lug. Production of curved-handle J 5 bolts ended in mid-1919.

Springfield resumed production of J 5 bolts in 1926. These also had curved handles, but the steel lot code was stamped atop the handle.

All C 8 and J 5 bolts are believed to be DHT, but no guarantees can be made. The steel lot code refers exclusively to the raw steel from the steel mill and is no conclusive indication of final heat treatment.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[Kurt]

John, very helpful and clears up an area I was curious about.

Regards

Kurt

[John Beard]

For those following the "hidden message" pursuit, Emri solved the initial riddle.

Springfield Armory used a fixture for stamping the steel lot code. So the codes were always stamped in the same sequence and same location. See my preceding post to get the proper method for holding the bolt and reading the code.

And the second "hidden message" was simpler. When the steel lot code location changed, that meant Springfield implemented a fixturing change. One day they were stamping codes beneath the safety lug. The next day they were stamping codes atop the bolt handle using a new fixture. The change was abrupt. There was no transition or overlap.

These discoveries came in very handy when trying to unravel and date all the bolt steel lot codes.

J.B.

[Kurt]

Very interesting and always welcome tidbits. Did the switch to swept handles coincide with the change in lot code location or was it just happenstance for lack of a better word.

Much appreciated lesson.

Kurt

[John Beard]

Very interesting and always welcome tidbits. Did the switch to swept handles coincide with the change in lot code location or was it just happenstance for lack of a better word.

Much appreciated lesson.

Kurt

The change in steel lot code location did NOT coincide with bending the bolt handle. And there was no relationship there-between.

J.B.