Questions re: originality of early RIA

[jonnyo55]

Hello to all. The RIAs are coming out of the woodwork! Here's one that I have some questions as to the originality of. It's s/n 46577, which should put in the pre-1905 modifications category. The barrel is a RIA with a 1910 date, and the stock is a GG with an "s" on the forend tip, a single (rear) bolt, and a "CN/1913" cartouche...at least I THINK it's "CN";*the 1913 is quite readable, the letters above it not so much.

So far, so good. I figured it was either a receiver that sat around RIA until 1913, when it was assembled with a 1910 barrel, or was rebarrelled at RIA in 1913 with a 1910 barrel.

Here's where it gets interesting. The barrel features the vice marks in front of the rear sight base sometimes found on USMC rebuilt '03 rifles...were these marks found on barrels that were arsenal rebuilt as part of the 1905 modifications?

The bolt is a SA item of the proper vintage (straight handle, J1 on bottom of safety lug), but cocking piece is RIA. The finish on both the receiver and cocking piece shroud is a nice mottled casehardening, and appears original. All other pieces (upper band w/o "H", smooth pointed trigger, checkered buttplate) appear to be of the correct vintage.

There's also an interesting, early-font rack number on the left side of the stock, apparently applied after the rifle had seen considerable use..

Any ideas?

[John Beard]

Your rifle has been arsenal-overhauled, re-barreled, and re-assembled from mixed parts. The 1910-dated barrel and the 1913-dated stock, if original, indicate that the rifle has been overhauled at least twice.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

p.s.,

Up until WWI, SA and RIA cocking pieces were identical.

[Fred]

p.s.,

Up until WWI, SA and RIA cocking pieces were identical.

John, what, pray tell, would the difference be?

FG

[jonnyo55]

I THOUGHT that RIA cocking piece grasping knobs featured an "extra" circumferential groove around them, but I think I got that idea from Harrison's guide, which is hardly free from errors.

John...I agree that the last overhaul of the rifle would have been in 1913; that's the date on the cartouche, and there's only one (7/16", script) circle P. Is there any reason, though, that the 1913 overhaul/rebarreling could not have used a 1910 barrel? And...did such arsenal rebarrelings leave vise marks?

[John Beard]

I THOUGHT that RIA cocking piece grasping knobs featured an "extra" circumferential groove around them, but I think I got that idea from Harrison's guide, which is hardly free from errors.

John...I agree that the last overhaul of the rifle would have been in 1913; that's the date on the cartouche, and there's only one (7/16", script) circle P. Is there any reason, though, that the 1913 overhaul/rebarreling could not have used a 1910 barrel? And...did such arsenal rebarrelings leave vise marks?

While it's possible that a 1913 overhaul could have used a 1910-dated barrel, the statistical odds are extremely small. A table of RIA serial numbers and barrel dates indicates that barrel dates tracked serial numbers very well. RIA used up their barrels as they made them.

Arsenal re-barrelings did not leave vise marks.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[John Beard]

John, what, pray tell, would the difference be?

FG

I am not aware of any differences between SA and RIA cocking pieces prior to WWI.

J.B.

[Fred]

I'm sorry. I meant to say could you please tell me what the the differences were After WWI? Thanks John.

[John Beard]

I'm sorry. I meant to say could you please tell me what the the differences were After WWI? Thanks John.

Follow the link:

SA Firing Pins (http://www.vishooter.net/m1903/SA_FPNS.JPG)

One correction: The 1925 date should be 1918.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[Fred]

Thanks John.