1883 trapdoor stock finish

[tgatley]

Hi everyone. I am in possession of an 1883 trapdoor stock that had been refinished as poorly as you can imagine. The good news is that the finish preserved all the metal parts and the stock. i now have it apart and stripped. i need to know the original finish used by Springfield. it is a shooter. Thanks.

[Dick Hosmer]

Linseed oil, raw in their case, but boiled will dry quicker. Hand rubbed, in small quantities until warm, multiple coats will be required. It's not a quick process.

[tgatley]

Thanks. I just bouight Linseed oil. Why do you boil iy first. Thom

[Dick Hosmer]

I do not know, nor am I sure that an individual can properly perform whatever the "boiling" process entails - which is probably more involved than simply heating it (to what temperature?) and allowing it to cool.

Raw will work, but sometimes (I'm guessing due to climate and/or humidity) it doesn't dry properly. Did you look at the label - perhaps what you bought has been boiled?

[tgatley]

It is raw but the directions say to use two parts paint thinner and one part linseed oil. maybe that is how they get it to dry faster. Thom

[Dick Hosmer]

You've exceeded my knowledge, sorry. Have only done one stock, many years ago, and that was with GB "Linspeed", which was (is?) largely, if not entirely, linseed oil. It worked well.

Only thing I can say is that I have never heard of adding thinner before being used on a stock.

[Dan Shapiro]

CAUTION!: No problem mixing thinner and linseed, however be advised that any rags containing such a mixture CAN spontaneously combust under the right conditions. When done, toss the rags outside in a metal container.

[glindes]

Hi everyone. I am in possession of an 1883 trapdoor stock that had been refinished as poorly as you can imagine. The good news is that the finish preserved all the metal parts and the stock. i now have it apart and stripped. i need to know the original finish used by Springfield. it is a shooter. Thanks.

Boiled will dry faster, but not fast. Grandfather used to say one coat/day/month; boiled one coat per day per week. Check the Watco Danish Oil finishes --dry fast couple of dark colors etc. Clean clean clean, prepare prepare prepare. 'Hope this helps. Geoff

[13Echo]

Linseed oil is a "drying oil", that is it polymerizes to form a plastic like film on exposure to oxygen. Linoleum is a product of polymerized linseed oil. Tung oil is another drying oil used on stocks and both are GI approved. Boiled Linseed oil from the hardware store is oil with added "dryers" that serve to catalyze the polymerization reaction. True boiled oil is oil heated in a closed iron pot to thicken it by partial polymerization. Stand oil from the artist supply store is a type of boiled linseed oil. Raw tung oil seems to do fine without all the extras but raw linseed oil can seem to take forever to "dry." Really oil soaked stocks never seem to "dry."

I do my GI stocks much like I was shown in the Army with the addition of some experience. The stripped or new stock is given a moderately thick coat of oil well rubbed in by hand with the excess wiped off after about an hour. the stock is then well rubbed with the palm and heel of the hand to generate heat to help the oil penetrate. The stock is set aside till it is DRY to touch. It should never feel sticky before adding the next coat which is another fairly heavy coat. It may take a few days a week, or longer for the stock to feel dry (depends a lot on the weather and humidity - goes faster when warm or hot). If the stock raises some grain or fuzz when wet then wet sand with oil and fine sandpaper to remove and wipe off. After 2 or maybe 3 heavy coats (no more - you do not want the stock to be soaked with oil that never has a chance to polymerize) and after the last coat is thoroughly dry to touch begin doing light coats of just a few drops well rubbed in to generate heat and let dry to touch (in hot weather may only take a day). Do multiple thin coats till you get the finish you want and maintain with light coats as necessary to maintain.

Be aware this GI finish will not fill large pores or give a gloss finish but it will give a GI correct, Drill Sergeant approved finish.

For GI stocks that only need maintenance I do it this way. A dirty stock is cleaned with half and half linseed oil and turpentine with maybe a bit of 0000 pumice on a rag. A toothbrush gets into cracks and crevasses. 0000 steel wool may be gently used for really bad spots. This is just to remove dirt and grime and if done carefully won't damage the original finish and patina. The oil is wiped off and the stock well rubbed down. Boiled oil is then used in thin coats well rubbed in to repair or refresh the finish as above. Really nasty sticky stocks soaked for years in raw linseed oil and gun oil may need to be stripped.

[M2Phil]

Linseed oil is a "drying oil", that is it polymerizes to form a plastic like film on exposure to oxygen. Linoleum is a product of polymerized linseed oil. Tung oil is another drying oil used on stocks and both are GI approved. Boiled Linseed oil from the hardware store is oil with added "dryers" that serve to catalyze the polymerization reaction. True boiled oil is oil heated in a closed iron pot to thicken it by partial polymerization. Stand oil from the artist supply store is a type of boiled linseed oil. Raw tung oil seems to do fine without all the extras but raw linseed oil can seem to take forever to "dry." Really oil soaked stocks never seem to "dry."

I do my GI stocks much like I was shown in the Army with the addition of some experience. The stripped or new stock is given a moderately thick coat of oil well rubbed in by hand with the excess wiped off after about an hour. the stock is then well rubbed with the palm and heel of the hand to generate heat to help the oil penetrate. The stock is set aside till it is DRY to touch. It should never feel sticky before adding the next coat which is another fairly heavy coat. It may take a few days a week, or longer for the stock to feel dry (depends a lot on the weather and humidity - goes faster when warm or hot). If the stock raises some grain or fuzz when wet then wet sand with oil and fine sandpaper to remove and wipe off. After 2 or maybe 3 heavy coats (no more - you do not want the stock to be soaked with oil that never has a chance to polymerize) and after the last coat is thoroughly dry to touch begin doing light coats of just a few drops well rubbed in to generate heat and let dry to touch (in hot weather may only take a day). Do multiple thin coats till you get the finish you want and maintain with light coats as necessary to maintain.

Be aware this GI finish will not fill large pores or give a gloss finish but it will give a GI correct, Drill Sergeant approved finish.

For GI stocks that only need maintenance I do it this way. A dirty stock is cleaned with half and half linseed oil and turpentine with maybe a bit of 0000 pumice on a rag. A toothbrush gets into cracks and crevasses. 0000 steel wool may be gently used for really bad spots. This is just to remove dirt and grime and if done carefully won't damage the original finish and patina. The oil is wiped off and the stock well rubbed down. Boiled oil is then used in thin coats well rubbed in to repair or refresh the finish as above. Really nasty sticky stocks soaked for years in raw linseed oil and gun oil may need to be stripped.
Some great advice there, Charts-N-Darts!

[13Echo]

Perhaps I should add that tung oil may be used over linseed oil and vice-versa. I should also note that for coats when I'm pretty well satisfied with the stock and for maintenance coats I've started using Maj Culver's Gunny paste - equal parts by volume of beeswax, boiled linseed oil, and turpentine. This works best applied to a warm stock on a hot or warm day - rub the paste into the stock just like you would a thin coat of oil with lots of rubbing to generate lots of heat. Let it sit in a warm place overnight and buff out with a lint free cloth. Makes for a stock ready for guard mount inspection. You'll get to be the Colonel's orderly for sure. Since the turpentine is flammable don't mix over open flame , use a double boiler to melt the wax, combine the oil and turpentine and then stir into the melted wax. Store in an airtight container.

When working with stock wood and I need a thinner I prefer turpentine over mineral spirits, paint thinner or Stoddard's solution as it is a natural derivative from wood and seems compatible with wood. The others are petroleum derivatives with an oil like property and I don't trust them not to affect wood in the long run like petroleum derived oils will. I don't have any proof of this but it is my gut feeling.

Jerry Liles

Jerry Liles

[Johnny P]

In refinishing 1903 Springfield and M1 Rifle stocks I finally settled on boiled linseed oil and turpentine (the real kind) mixed 50/50. It goes on in very thin coats and dries quickly. Put the first coat on very heavy, let it set about 30 minutes, and remove all you can with toweling. Smooth everything back out and let it dry, which should take no more than 24 hours. From then on put the thinnest coat you can apply, and the drying time should again be no more than 24 hours. In this manner you can see the progress of the finish, and won't end up with a sticky buildup. I have applied as many as 8 coats and as little as 3 to get the correct finish.

If the stock is still showing some of the original red color under the later finish, don't completely strip it. Use lacquer thinner which is not too aggressive in removing the old finish, and it will leave the original color which will pop out when you apply the 50/50 mix. Initially the finish will smell like turpentine, but the turpentine smell goes away and the finish then smells like linseed oil.

[Mark Daiute]

deleted

[Kragrifle]

Great advice, but which type of linseed oil do you recommend?

[Johnny P]

Seems an odd name for linseed oil, but it is Klean-Strip.

[13Echo]

For most purposes just hardware store "boiled oil" suffices. I've also use artist stand oil and it works well but is expensive..

Jerry Liles

[ridgerunner]

13Echo is correct, and gives very good advice. Raw linseed oil, I tried once when I was very young, and I will never use it again. Boiled linseed oil, takes a while and is a lot of work, but if the stock is prepped right and you spend the time rubbing it in and letting it harden, and put enough coats on it, you can have a drop dead gorgeous finish. ( Don't get in a hurry. )

[pelago]

Boiled linseed oil nothing more just plain old boiled linseed oil any hardware store has it one quart can will last 200 years
My grand dad who passed in 1963 gave me his springfield rifle, the one he shot camp perry with in 1938, he told me all he did was keep it rifle inspection clean, well oiled and rubbed stock with linseed oil,
starting with raw wood this is a time consuming project and if you want a sheen on it you have to be so so patient a drop of linseed oil in your palm and just rub it in, my grand dad gave me a bottle that he had and i still use it, i did add some more oil to it fifty years ago but still the same oil a drop at a time

[Lee T.]

Gents, all good comments above, as long as you're mainly concerned with looks as opposed to the way the wood holds up. Appearance, feel, pride of a beautiful finish - all valid in today's world. But I think it's worthwhile to remember a couple things about the environment the older wood stocks were to be used in - nasty wet weather, dirt, sand, sun, heat of rapid firing, etc. etc. -- a lot different than being stored in a modern day gun safe that's mostly used in fair weather.
So what's my point?
Hardwoods like walnut, oak, alder are open-grained, and whereas hardwoods like birch, beech and maple are closed-grain. Ever see a butcher block made from oak? Probably not, and there's a reason for that. Raw linseed will soak into open grained woods, never seeming to dry, but is able to take additional coats again and again. The dull sheen and slightly sticky feel would seem to be an advantage in the field. Finishes that have drying agents (like boiled LO) will coat the surface but creates a barrier to additional coats once it's dry. That's a problem if you want weather protection.

I don't know whether boiled LO was even around in the early 1900's, but in the world before plastics and resins, it made sense to finish military gunstocks (mostly walnut for U.S.) with raw LO because it made for weatherproofing not found in other finishes. More work for sure but I think more authentic.
Hope this adds a little to the conversation.....