Handguard Color

[Marty T.]

I have a k98 stock that is that nice deep reddish color. Just got a handguard to go with it, but it has a lighter brown color. Both are laminated wood. What was used to get the dark color on the stocks as I want my handguard to match.
Marty

[dave]

Deep reddish color indicates a Russian capture stock refinished by them. Where is the serial number on stock located? Lamintated stocks left the factory with no finish or stain.The were the nateral color of the wood, whiteish to yellowish. Finish was not necessary due to the water proof 'resin' used to glue the 1/16" layers of wood together. Water would not soak in. With use they got dirty and soldiers probably added oil as was instructed with early walnut wood. I would use a paint-stripper on both 'stock and handguard'. The Russian finish seems to have the color in the finish so most should come off with the stripper. You may have to use 2 coats or so to remove it all. Then wash both down in hot soapy water using a good stiff brush, dry with an old towel and allow to dry for 2-3 days (not in direct heat.) You may have to lightly steel wool to remove "whiskers" raised by the washing.
You should end up with a natural looking 'used' stock. One very light coat of a non-gloss clear finish will preserve the look.

[Johnny P]

Don't strip an otherwise original stock until you are sure the finish is not original. This is an excellent byf 44 with the original finish. The inside of the handguard and the barrel channel have the serial numbers stamped in them, plus they are a very light blond color inside. An oil stain was applied after the rifle was assembled, and normally you can see where it runs under the handguard.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2a4qo1x.jpg

[dave]

There was no stain applied "after the rifle was assembled". If they had been stained they would have dipped the stocks just like the US and Japan did. You really think they had the labor available to set with a brush and apply stain after rifle was together? I will repeat---they left the factory with no finish and I have two in my collection that are virtually as new to prove it. The various colors seen on these rifles were applied by german troops, by countries who rebuilt them after the war or GI's who brought them home. Usually with use they became a light to dark brown color.
The rifle pictured looks like typical stain used by the Russians. Again---where is the serial at on stock, Marty?

[Johnny P]

The Germans matched the handguard and stock by staining them together after assembly. If you have looked at enough K98k's you will see this.

Attached is a photo showing the original color of the wood inside that was not stained, and where the stain ran under the handguard.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=154452

http://i61.tinypic.com/2czek37.jpg

[Johnny P]

Additional photos showing where the stain didn't get under the hand guard.

http://i57.tinypic.com/i44m1g.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/2wq4zd4.jpg

[dave]

That staining was NOT done at the factory when manufactured. I have been collecting Mausers since the 1950's. Back then they were all 'bringbacks' and sold for 35-40 dollars, and hundreds of them passed thru my collection. These mostly had just dirt and maybe old oil on them, a brown shade.. Some were stained by the GI's who brought them home. German manuals stated walnut stocks should be oiled. Not so the laminates, but the troops probably did it anyway. If these stocks are washed they will come out almost the same as the inside areas. Stain will not wash out altho it may get lighter. I never saw a 'red' stain until the recent import of RC's.
The finish you show on your rifle is certainly not original!

[Johnny P]

I can't help how long you have been collecting, the byf 44 shown, along with a bayonet, was bought from the family of the vet that brought it back. It was in virtually condition new when I bought it, but I shot it for years. As to the stock, it is exactly the same color as when I bought it.

The stain is original to the rifle. They were not issued with raw stocks.

[Marty T.]

Sorry for being so long in answering. Had a lot going on and just now had the time to get back to this. Johnny, the stock I have is pretty much the same color that you have posted in the the picture. Dave, the numbers in the stock are 6938 in front of trigger housing and further up the stock are Na 6 40. But the inside of my stock is not the lighter shade as seen in the pics. For the most part it is a little lighter but not the real light brown of the natural wood. If you all know what the numbers mean, I would really like to know. And something else you that know these things can tell me. My stock did not have the take down discs in it. I had to order some that I was told were taken from an M38 Mauser to match the dia. of the pockets in the stock which are about 1 in. So next question, with the numbers in the stock and the dia. of the discs, who made this thing and when? I'm not going to try to do anything with the color of the stock because I am NOT a wood person. Have a machine/welding shop so can do the metal, but wood ain't my thang. Will just try to get another handguard that matches better rather than ruin what I have trying to "fix" it. Thanks for info, this may turn into another channel of collecting if I'm not careful!

[dave]

'6938 in front of TG'. To me that means forward or towards the front of the rifle. Correct? May mean serial number if towards the butt plate, on bottom and across the stock. If truely 'in front' it is not original German, unless you are talking about the inside barrel channel which did carry the German serial. Na 6 40 means nothing to me and I suspect this came off a post war rebuild. Many countries captured, or had left behind German rifles and rebuilt them for their own use, especially the Russians and Yugo's. The red stain smells Russian!
First its insinuated that I have not looked at many K98k's then when I try to explain I have looked at many, I'm told 'I don't care--' Jeeeze!

[Marty T.]

The 6938 is inside the stock in the barrel channel towards the muzzle end of the barrel in front of TG, yes that is correct. The Na 6 40 is just a little further up the stock, still on the inside under the barrel, towards the muzzle end. Could it possibly be a manufacture date for the stock because the spacing is how it is in the channel of the stock? I have no idea and not knowledgable enough to even be guessing, but just a thought. Thanks.

[dave]

OK, I did not think of that because it is usually under the butt plate. I have a rifle stamped Ha 350 41. Ha is the sub contractor, 350 (3 50) is the machine/operator number, and 41 the year. In your case it would be 'Na (contracter) 6 (machine/operator) 40 (year). I have several others with such codes stamped under butt plate, all these are 1940 and later rifles, and none are walnut wood stocked. Barrels carried a similar code just forward of the reciever, most always under the wood line.

In your case the Na was the code for Uhrenfabrik Junghans, Schramberg, Black Forest. Sometimes these codes will use another number after the machine number such as 12, this means 12th week (of the year). Before an argument starts here I want to add that this is all theory, about what the numbers all mean, and even the company that used that code (Na). There is no documentation for this, just some research (not mine) and its been disputed by others due to conflicts with some known codes. All seem to agree with the last number being the year. The German records just did not survive or have not surfaced yet!
There were two stock disk sizes, the large one was introduced in 1940 which means your stock could have either size. I did not measure either one.

[Toulgas]

dave, I wanted to PM you about this, but your message box is full, and won't accept any more until space is cleared....

[dave]

Something is messed up with this system. I had only 6 messages in my inbox, all of which I have deleted before. I have 44 stored of 50 allowed and can not figure a way to delete them. send an e-mail, you should be able to, in my profile.

[Marty T.]

Well let me throw one wrench in the gears here. I have read that with the M1 rifle there was a big todo about the gas cylinder finish wearing off and not being able to hide because of the shiny finish. So I was wondering, if the German stocks left the factory with no coloring of any kind, wouldn't that light colored stock have been something that would be hard to tide? Or did they just naturally darken on their own? Just another curiosity question.

[dave]

Dirt, use and troops oiling them, as they were instructed to do with the older walnut stocks. Just like GI's were instucted to oil stocks on the 03, etc.