Type 99 buying advice

[captcrunch227]

Hello all,

I am getting very close to completing my dream of having a main battle rifle from each major country in WW2. I need some help though on the Type 99. Does anyone know a reputable dealer to buy from? I've not had much luck trying to find someone who sells these, I only seem to find them on a gunbroker or similar site. I prefer a dealer as I feel there seems to be more honesty there than in private sellers. But I'm not hard fast set on that rule. ANY help I could get in being pointed in the right direction would be outstanding. Thanks for the help y'all.

[psteinmayer]

There are a few things you need to know about Type 99s before you get ready to buy. First, are you looking for an early model (chrome lined bore, anti-aircraft rear sight, monopod, etc.), or would a Last-Ditch be more your style? With the Type 99, there are many different variances... all of which need to be considered if you're looking from a collector's standpoint. Also, from a collector's standpoint, the mum will be important too, and this will affect the price.

Gunbroker is a good place to start, but make sure you know what you're looking at... and then you'll have a better idea of whether you're getting a good deal, or being taken to the cleaners. If you find something of interest, you can always ask for an opinion here, and you'll always get honest answers. Sometimes, Arisakas are listed by people here on the forum too! Of course, the best way to go is to stumble onto an Arisaka, and an honest seller. I stumbled onto a Type 99 at a local "no-one-knows-about-this-hidden-away-place" gun shop once several years ago, and cursed myself for not having enough money to take it home.

I have two Type 99s. A Nagoya Series 7 that was given to my father, and he later sporterized it by cutting the stock down (one day I'll replace the stock and it will be correct again). The other is a Toyo Kogyo Series 31 with a full mum, chrome bore, anti-aircraft sight, monopod, action cover... and the whole shebang! I "stumbled" onto this rifle while having a Garand re-barreled. We were talking about different rifles and he said "I have this Arisaka that I'm selling..." The price was unbelievable, so it followed me home! Sometimes, it's that simple!

[dave]

Gun shows are your best bet, you can pick them up and look them over. No need to take anyones word. You may want to invest a modest amount in a book, Japanese Rilfes of WW11 by Duncan O. McCollum is cheap and gives a good description of the different types. Not for the advanced collector but a good guide for the beginner or one who only wants one or two, as you do.
I would not worry about a mum, 95% will be without one and the price goes up allot if present. Ground mum means rifle was brought back from the war. Some un-ground rifles made it home too but they are uncommen. These rifles have never been imported except for some brought in from China in the 90's, usually in very poor condition. These will not be ground.

[Deano41]

Dave and PS both have good advice. At the top of this forum, there is a sticky on markings. That will help you identify what you are looking at.
The Type 99 rifle was made by from 1940 to 1945 by eight different arsenals. Nagoya and Kokura being the most prolific.
Each arsenal was assigned a group of "series numbers" in groups of 100,000 each. The serial numbers are repeated for each series. For example, Nagoya had series 0 (no series mark) through 12, so the same serial number was repeated 13 times.
With a few exceptions (matched by assembly number) Type 99 rifles were matched by the last three numbers of the serial number on the left side of the receiver, on the bolt and front band, (and a couple of other places).

In selecting a rifle, my first criteria would be matching numbers, followed by original finish (Bubba got to some of them), then "Mum".
As the war progressed, features such as monopod, dust cover and anti-aircraft wings were omitted. Beware of reproductions. There is one vendor in New York who is known to swap stocks, add features, and change serial numbers to match, to enhance the price.

Good luck!

[psteinmayer]

Thanks Deano! Capt. Crunch, you'll find few on here with more Arisaka knowledge than Deano or Dave.

Dave, I totally forgot about gun shows! In Michigan, we have the Antique Arms Collectors Assn. shows a few times a year. There are always Type 99s available, from early full shebang to last-ditch models... and everything in between.

By the way, if you've never fired a 99, beware... they kick lick a (insert female dog reference here)!

[Deano41]

Thanks PS. The truth is, I buy the books. I can't remember anything, but I know where to find it in a book.
Gun shows are a great source for books on the things we collect. There's a guy from Idaho that I have been buying firearms related books from, since the Great Western Show days at Pomona in the nineties.

[dave]

One reason for gun shows I did not mention, you can pick it up and look at it not only for condition but for just what "appeals" to you. You only want one so get one you like the looks of. With so many styles in these rifles I would recommend an early type.

[dave]

Thanks Deano! Capt. Crunch, you'll find few on here with more Arisaka knowledge than Deano or Dave.

Dave, I totally forgot about gun shows! In Michigan, we have the Antique Arms Collectors Assn. shows a few times a year. There are always Type 99s available, from early full shebang to last-ditch models... and everything in between.

By the way, if you've never fired a 99, beware... they kick lick a (insert female dog reference here)!

MAAC was exactly what I was thinking of. Saw several there at this months show. I only have a small collection of jap rifles, 99 long, two regular 99's, 38 rifle & carbine and a 44. (only one has a mum) I collect 98 model Mausers and the jap models are varients of a Mauser, as are 03's, 17's. etc. I am far from an expert on jap rifles only know a few basics.
I have been a member of MAAC since 97 and try to make all their shows. I am from Durand, MI. How about you, if you do not mind giving your approx. location!

[psteinmayer]

I'm in Ypsilanti Dave. I actually missed this months MAAC show because I'm currently without transportation (thanks to a sideways idiot who slammed into me). I was a little bummed about missing it cause I need a few things... such as a proper cleaning rod for my Toyo Kogyo 99 (the only incorrect part on it). I'd also like to get more 7.7x58 brass. I'm thinking that I may register for a second Vintage Rifle match this year at Camp Perry, and shoot my 99 (I regularly shoot Vintage with my 1898 Krag, and Garand Class). I also want to price out parts to return my Nagoya Series 7 back to original condition (need a bolt, stock, front and rear bands, hand guard, cleaning rod, and attaching hardware). My dad sporterized the stock and bent the bolt handle in the early 1960s for hunting, and the extra parts scattered to the winds.

[Deano41]

Graffs has 7.7 brass. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/775?
Don schlickman has small parts (he makes them, and they are excellent) . He might straighten bolt handles (I'm not sure about that one.)
http://members.shaw.ca/tju/donspartslist.htm

[psteinmayer]

This one can't be straightened. Dad had someone cut it and re-weld it at an angle. Fortunately, it and the stock are the only parts that were modified. The removed parts just got lost!

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p511/Paul_Steinmayer/Type99Arisaka070.jpg

Thanks very much for the links though... I'll check them out!

[captcrunch227]

That is some very helpful advice. I appreciate the recommendation on the books, that is something I will definitely be checking out. I'll have to look at some gun shows here. However for some reason, in Texas gun shows are some of the highest prices you will see. Especially with the older WW2 era guns, they have ridiculous mark ups on them. Never hurts to look though. I guess I'll just keep checking the internet trying to find one. Unless one pops up on here someday which would be great.

[dave]

This one can't be straightened. Dad had someone cut it and re-weld it at an angle. Fortunately, it and the stock are the only parts that were modified. The removed parts just got lost!

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p511/Paul_Steinmayer/Type99Arisaka070.jpg

Thanks very much for the links though... I'll check them out!

Very interesting safety knob on that rifle. I have only seen that style in books. Going towards the last ditch type as is the bolt knob.

[psteinmayer]

Nagoya had series 0 through 12, and this being a series 7 with S/N 62,977 places it just past halfway through the 7s, and no where near the last ditch models. All numbers are matching too! I believe these knobs started appearing at different times, depending on which arsenal you're dealing with. For Nagoya, the machined bolt knob and grooved safety should appear around 4th or 5th series.

To be honest, I would prefer to not replace the bolt body, but rather have the handle re-cut and welded straight again... That way, I would preserve my matching numbers (unless I could find one from a different arsenal with the same number).

[DRAGONFLYDF]

Thanks Deano! Capt. Crunch, you'll find few on here with more Arisaka knowledge than Deano or Dave.

Dave, I totally forgot about gun shows! In Michigan, we have the Antique Arms Collectors Assn. shows a few times a year. There are always Type 99s available, from early full shebang to last-ditch models... and everything in between.

By the way, if you've never fired a 99, beware... they kick lick a (insert female dog reference here)!

BS, a Type 99 is 7.7mm, and is slightly smaller in length than a 30-06, it kicks no harder than a 03, 1917, K98, 7.5 Swiss or any other rifle of similar size. I have several 99s, and shoot them regularly.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

[Guamsst]

Capncrunch, what part of Texas are you in? I agree about gunshow prices.Lots of ignorant folks asking for the moon and old guys trying to guess what guns should be worth.

I keep my prices reasonable and I know I have lost sales because people assume there must be something wrong with the gun because it is cheap. Nope, if I buy a $400 gun for $200 I'm selling it for $300 not $600. I have some VERY steady customers.

A good T-99 should run you $300 in Texas. Start getting into Early ones with all the accessories and you can go $700......$1,100 on gunbroker with that insanity. I have picked up two early rifles with monopod, AA sights, dustcover and cleaning rod for $200ea at gunshows in the last year.

As to which one you want, BE CAREFUL the damned things are addictive. There are just too many variations. I would suggest a Type38 with front sight ears as this would be correct for WW2 and would cut out the variation issues. If you get a T-99 I would suggest planning on getting 3- an Early, a Transition and a LATE war. Take your time, be patient and you can have all 3 for less than the price of a decent Garand or M1 carbine.

[captcrunch227]

Thanks Guamsst, I am in North Texas, the DFW area to be exact. Thanks for the encouragement on finding them, it gives me some sort of hope. As for the type of gun, I'm looking for an early or transition, not really wanting a last ditch. I sent you a PM by the way.