View Full Version : 91/30 bolt operation.
Some time ago I owned the Hungarian sniper version and it was a delight. This new rifle has a main spring so powerful that bolt manipulation is difficult. Engaging the safety is impossible. Is this just a question of trimming a few coils off the spring or is there more to it?
Nobody else has taken a crack at this so I'll try.
1. If you ever owned any Russian/Soviet Model 91, Model 91/30 or any of their derivatives and the safety wasn't a beast to operate you got a true jewel.
2. Is bolt manipulation difficult when the weapon is unloaded? Many of these rifles are difficult to open after firing full power steel cased ammunition. My Model 44 almost always is difficult to open after firing steel cased ammo but opens easily after firing brass cased cartridges. If operating the bolt is difficult with the weapon unloaded the first step would be to disassemble and thoroughly inspect and clean the bolt mechanism. If that doesn't solve the cocking problem a trip to a gunsmith with some experience with these weapons might be in order.
Art, I have dissembled a Mosin bolt once before and I'm not looking forward to it. But, if that is what it takes, it will be done. Thanks.
In addition to the above, check the firing pin protrusion; I assume that you have shot the gun, if so how did the primers look?
Also, the Russians were much more concerned with function than the "little details" of ease of use, heavy spring tension can make for reliable firing. Should you have a second Mosin, try swapping bolts for a test to see if the issue is related to the spring at all.
Last, I would recommend buying a replacement spring before cutting a "original" one that works; easier to correct if you have a known component. Have fun.
This bolt did not disassemble as per the instructions. Nothing lined up.Got it back together OK. Funny thing about this rifle is that it is all matching, including the bayonet, except the receiver. The only receiver markings on what looks like an after market cheap job is C.I. A., Georgia, UT. There is also a marking for the caliber. Kinda looks like some put together. Don't mind, the ammo that came with it is worth half the cost of the rifle.
Correction, there is the serial number which stars with 9130 plus 5 digits.
Nobody else has taken a crack at this so I'll try.
1. If you ever owned any Russian/Soviet Model 91, Model 91/30 or any of their derivatives and the safety wasn't a beast to operate you got a true jewel.
2. Is bolt manipulation difficult when the weapon is unloaded? Many of these rifles are difficult to open after firing full power steel cased ammunition. My Model 44 almost always is difficult to open after firing steel cased ammo but opens easily after firing brass cased cartridges. If operating the bolt is difficult with the weapon unloaded the first step would be to disassemble and thoroughly inspect and clean the bolt mechanism. If that doesn't solve the cocking problem a trip to a gunsmith with some experience with these weapons might be in order.
Hi, Art- I have had the same problem with steel cased ammo. I have read, and now believe, these are coated with some kind of lacquer, which ostensibly was a rust preventative for the steel(?) It occurs to me now that I could simply wipe off some rounds with lacquer thinner, and then give it a go, duh. At the range, the rifle cycled ok, but got sticky, and then frozen to the point that I had to whack the bolt open with a piece of wood, after it had cooled a while. Could be this type of ammo is more suited to machine guns- more generous chamber dimensions, etc...
Hi, Art- I have had the same problem with steel cased ammo. I have read, and now believe, these are coated with some kind of lacquer, which ostensibly was a rust preventative for the steel(?) It occurs to me now that I could simply wipe off some rounds with lacquer thinner, and then give it a go, duh. At the range, the rifle cycled ok, but got sticky, and then frozen to the point that I had to whack the bolt open with a piece of wood, after it had cooled a while. Could be this type of ammo is more suited to machine guns- more generous chamber dimensions, etc...
I had read, for what its worth, that the change from brass to steel case ammunition was caused by the tendency of the extractors on the M1938 and M1940 rifles which had tilting bolts and no primary extraction, to sometimes tear through the rims of brass case ammo :eek:. Steel ammo was much cheaper, worked fine in machine guns and in the autoloading rifles which were supposed to replace the Mosins and therefore became standard; or so went the story. I don't know if it's just the lacquer, I've had very sticky extraction with Soviet/Russian copper washed steel cases too.
I've never had to beat a bolt open with a piece of wood using steel cased ammo but I have, especially after a magazine or two, had to give the bottom of the bolt two or three sharp raps on the bottom of the bolt handle to fee it. Brass case ammo, on the other hand, extracts and ejects smooth as silk. I recall seeing film of Russian soldiers in WWII giving the bolt handle on there rifles quite a sharp lick on the upstroke.
My experience is that some ammo simply cycles better than other, my rifles seem to like russian (steel and copperwash) and hungarian ammo but give me fits with bolt opening on czech and any heavy ball. Otherwise the bolts cycle rather easily.
In addition to my above post, take a look at the barrel face for any crud or lacquer deposits.
androck14
02-21-2014, 01:49
I had this problem with a 91/30, thought it might be the lacquer so I scrubbed the heck out of some rounds with lacquer thinner and tumbled others in walnut. No joy. Works fine with brass.
My 91/30 extraction problem a couple years ago was due to a burr in the chamber. After firing new Lapua brass I had to use a piece of wood to get the bolt to open. Upon scrutiny of the fired brass I determined that slight gouge and weird scrape was NOT on the brass when it left the factory. A second firing verified this. The rifle sat for over a year until I had a spare few hours one weekend. Chucked up an extra long screw driver extension wrapped with fine grit sandpaper (but it wasn't sand...something else). Once I determined where the burr was it only took a minute to smooth out. There is still a slight indication of the burr left on fired brass, but I can live with it. Don't feel comfortable taking off any more of the rifle's chamber, no matter how minute. Might do a chamber cast just to see what I have. - Liam
A friend of mine had the same problem of a burr in the chamber. A short section of drill rod with a slot cut in the end so as to roll up some emery cloth and a drill did the trick.
Most, if not all, the extraction problems are ammo related. Despite information to the contrary, you are not shooting the same WWll ammo the Russkis used and there are other reasons they did not have the failure rate you are experiencing.
The first Chinese SKS rifles inported into the U.S.A. were actual CHICOM surplus. They were well used and full of the Chinese version of Cosmolene. I bought dozens of tlhese used rifles for $75 and sold them for $150. I would degrease them, and test fire every one. They were amazing. Every one of the rifles were zeroed out of the box. That was in 1979, and when the actual surplus rifles dried up, the PLO started to sell "new" SKS rifles and as those sold out, the Chinese manufactured "stamped and pinned" models for exportation. They were not the same quality as the "issued" rifles that were actually used by the PLO.
Later, I was buying Finnish Mosins 3 for $99 with free shipping. Some of those rifles appeared to be brand new. Soft point hunting ammunition was hard to find at the time but I found some brass cased FMJ rounds and pulled the bullets and replaced them with the same weight Sierras.
As I posted earlierr, some guns have a ammo preference, additionally, there are light and heavy bullet weights that can be a factor. I shoot the light (Hungarian and Russian) ammo from the 50's to 70's with no problem.
There is good info in the above posts, the Russian military was not interested in ease of operation, they wanted function, as such the spring tension was heavy enough to fire every time. Not too great for dis assembly or trigger pull, but it made the rifle fire reliably under any conditions (such as below zero temps).
In addition to the above replies, do make it a point to clean the bolt body, the commie cosmoline is a true russian bear to get out of the bolt, I have had to scrub and soak the bolt for days to get the old crud and varnish out of my Mosin bolts and still had some appear during further cleanings. You can change the spring or cut coils if you wish, no harm there, but they still remain as unfriendly as ever with some ammo.
Fun rifles to shoot, accurate and cheap.
As previously mentioned, be sure to measure the protrusion of the firing pin beyond the bolt face after re-assembling the bolt. My Mosin (surely Vassily Zeitsev's personal rifle!!!) came with a tool made for that purpose. Also, 2021 is correct. I read in a milsurp website that bolts of "new" Mosins should be disassembled and thoroughly cleaned to prevent them from freezing/locking in place. I was once at the range and a poor guy couldn't open his bolt. He said it worked just fine a year earlier when he first shot the rifle...He cleaned the gun's bore and put it in a closet, and now the bolt was stuck. Short of using a 4 pound hammer, I could not help him open it. And that safety: Ha, Crazy Ivan didn't need no stinkin safety.
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