Bullet question for Krag loads

[CHW2021]

I am shooting Seirra gameking/matchking bullets (165gr. I believe) @ +-2000 fps in a sportered Krag, I want to hunt with the rifle; but, I have a question.
I realize that the tipped ballistic point bullets are supposed to expand fast and reliably. but does anyone have an idea of the velocities needed to begin expansion for different bullet types/brands?

I am going to be hunting pigs at about 50-75 yds, I do not need a magnum powerhouse rifle, I like the light weight and recoil of this Krag (and the bolt action of course) and just want to use a 112 year old rifle for fun. I would prefer to have the bullet expand almost immediately, but retain enough mass to penetrate 12+ inches of pig. I do know that there are "better" rifles and calibers, but do I really need a 300 H&H for a pig? How dead do I need the thing to be....

Suggestions please.

[psteinmayer]

My father always said "You can kill any animal with a .22 and a well placed shot!" Now he may be a little optimistic with that, but the theory is correct.

Scads of large game in the USA have been taken with Krags... and with everything from the standard 220 gr RN jacketed to a 150 gr spitzer, and even lighter bullets, and at ranges of hundreds of yards. One of the most popular rounds ever for the Krag is the simple Remington 180 gr Core Lokt, which is responsible for millions of large game kills. The importance of bullet expansion is not how deep before it expands, but rather how much it expands after the bullet hits an obstruction - namely, the skin of the animal being taken. Expansion then occurs to maximize the damage inflicted as the remnants of the bullet tear through the innards. The rate of expansion refers to how big the slug gets, rather than how quickly it gets there. At 50 to 75 yards, a 165 gr bullet traveling 2200 fps should penetrate 12 inches with no problems. In MHO, your bullet should be just fine!

[CHW2021]

I agree, however, I intend to "under power" the load somewhat compared to factory ammunition just to make life easier on the rifle. Recent developments have radically changed bullet designs and performance compared to the old school products that I know; maybe I am trying to get Ferrari performance from an Edsel, but i am curious.
As I understand it, some of the newer bullets do expand more rapidly (as in the evil black talon) and are designed to stay together to transfer more energy.....may not be the first time I have been wrong, but it surely will not be the last! The speeds at which expansion would begin is, I suppose, my real question. Maybe I should have posted in reloading, move the post if so.
Thanks.

[CHW2021]

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[jon_norstog]

CHW,

Try out your loads for feeding. I have had the plastic tips come off ballistic tip=type bullets when running them through a Krag. And the bullet can hang up against the side plate. Some Krags will feed spitzers and pointed bullets, some will balk. RNs seated to spec for OAL are a sure feed in any Krag. I use 150 gr. RN bullets at about 2400 fps as a deer load. RN bullets are designed to expand at lower velocities than a lot of spitzers, which have to perform at magnum velocities. Your gamekings have to do the job whether they are in an '06 or a 300 Mag.

You are right on track using the Krag, though. A Krag makes a great hunting rifle for shooting at iron-sight ranges. Just make sure you can get off a second shot!


Good luck!

jn

[Dick Hosmer]

Don't lose sight of the fact that hunting pigs at 50 yds. can turn "interesting" - so, don't lower the load too much! A friend of mine was hunting, many years, ago, with an M1, when he was charged by a large and angry pig. He emptied the rifle and the pig died practically at his feet. Naturally, he wondered about his accuracy in what ultimately became panic mode, figuring he'd missed a few times. He had not - the boar absorbed all eight .30-'06 (bullet type unknown) rounds before expiring.

[CHW2021]

Haven't thought of feed problems, thanks. I intend to be in a stand or tripod, I do not intend to face a pi$$ed off pig if I can avoid it.
I like the smooth action of the Krag a lot, that is why I want to hunt with it, I just feel that I do not need to put undue stress on the bolt/receiver with "factory" strength ammo.

[psteinmayer]

These days, I hunt pigs at the local meat market. Tastes great, and a lot less dangerous, LOL

Seriously though... Even at standard velocities for a 165 gr bullet (2250 est.), the Krag is much easier on the shoulder, and plenty durable! Unless there is a problem that would make your Krag unsafe to shoot... it should be safe for standard loads as long as you don't exceed maximum pressures (40,000 cup). I hunted with my sporter for years before I quit hunting. I still shoot it at the range on a regular basis and I normally shoot a Hornady 165 gr soft point spitzer bullet over 38.9 grains of 4064. Also, I agree with Jon about the plastic tip bullets... test your feed with them before you head out into the field. Otherwise, a normal RN bullet might be the ticket.

Bang away my friend!

[gnoahhh]

I can't speak for that bullet against hogs, but I have been using the Sierra 165 GK at those lower velocities for years in a .30/06 and found them to expand and penetrate beautifully on deer.

[madsenshooter]

A couple bullets come to mind for low velocity work. I'd consider the 30cal A-Max bullets, or other thin jacketed target bullets, but as some pointed out, not all Krags feed them well. Another option would be roundnose bullets designed for the 30-30. They were made to work right at the velocity you're shooting for. There's also the 160gr Hornady Flex-Tip designed for 30-30 velocities. Best of all I think would be some hard cast bullets. I have a 311284 mold with a hollowpoint pin. Cast with a hard alloy, it sure leaves some big holes in the red clay of the back stop at my local range. The holes are deep too, the base goes on penetrating after the hollowpoint has expanded and broken off. Proper fitting of the cast bullet could be a pain for you though.

[kragluver]

Any .30-30 bullet should work fine in the Krag application. My personal hog hunting Krag load is the 180 gr Hornady roundnose.

Pigs are not armor plated but they can be hard to kill if you don't hit them right. Neck shots are good. Center body shots with a .223 works well on small to medium size hogs. I don't bother gutting them. I simply filet the backstraps off and take the hams. That's the best meat anyway.

The smallest round I've used was a .17 HMR but I wouldn't recommend it. Any center fire rifle will suffice.

[CHW2021]

I had not thought of a 30-30 round, that is the velocity range I am shooting; great suggestions. I am not familiar with the A-max bullet either, I will also look that one up.
I asked in order to save myself from "reinventing the wheel". Sometimes asking saves a lot of money and time. Thanks to all.

BTW, I am hoping for head/neck shots, but it is up to the pig to provide me the option.

[kragluver]

I don't recommend head shots on a hog unless you are very close. The brain is relatively far back in the skull and very well protected by the skull plate. A direct shot will of course penetrate but if you have an angled shot, it very well may not. The neck is good. Its a fairly big target on a hog and in my experience drops them pretty quick (within 50-75 yards usually). My personal experience with head shots are when delivering coup de grace to a couple of wounded hogs. I had one large sow take three 230 gr hollow points behind the ear before she finally quit trying to rip my legs apart. I dance well for an old guy:) I've since learned a better head shot on a hog is to shoot them right between the eyes.

[madsenshooter]

The A-Max, like many target bullets, is thin jacketed. About any 30 caliber hunting bullet is going to perform ok at the range you're hoping to get a shot because the impact velocity will still be relatively high, in the neighborhood of the same bullet shot from an 06 or 308 at 2500fps impacting at 200-250yds. I have no personal experience with hogs, but hope to get some as their population is growing here in SE Ohio. Open season year round, a good excuse to be in the woods with a highpower rifle, which we are normally only allowed to use on varmints. The coyote population is going up too, and they take a toll on young deer.

[kragluver]

Come to Texas - we have all the coyotes and hogs you could want. The trouble is finding the time to break free and go hunt them!

[jon_norstog]

Well CH, there you have it. Bullet choice is kind of a matter of personal preference, just so long as you can put one where you want it and feed a follow-up shot. I will say that I spent a couple seasons between Krags hunting with an 8mm mauser. My brother gave me some 220 gr. Barnes X-bullets to try out so I loaded them up to the gills in front of 4895. The X-bullet is solid copper, apparently it is designed for use in the 8mm magnum. Anyway I shot a moose at 65 yards with it, one shot through the heart, just about front-on. The bullet was under the hide on the far side, intact and barely expanded. If the bullet had just traveled through the animal's lungs I would have had a long day's work trailing that moose.

Good luck!

jn

[BudT]

You might want to try the Hornady 160 grain flex tip out of your Krag, they shoot and feed good out of my Krag. jon those X bullets are a tough son of a gun I do shoot them and the newer triple shock and the tipped version out of several of my rifles. The old X bullet would copper foul the crap out of your barrel I suppose that's why Barns dropped them from the line. I'm doing a experiment with the old X bullet to see if the CFE powder will take care of the fouling problem, if it ever gets good weather here. They shoot good and don't blow up if you hit a bone and that's why I like them.

[CHW2021]

This was exactly the input I wanted, thanks to all. I do have the option of going with a 8mm Turk that was sportered (and still shoots great) with several different rounds, but the Krag just gives more "style" than any other rifle.
Pigs are tough, no doubt about that; deer are not likely to tear you up when tracking a wounded one. I do not want to track a wounded pig at night if I could possibly avoid it. A bullet that will expand quickly at (relatively ) low velocity and hold together seems to be more likely to drop or damage enough tissue to allow a quick second shot. Humane for the pig, safe for me. I will post results.

BTW, I will see what my friends have for 30-30 bullets, the A max is the second to be tried; I had not thought of feed issues with ballistic tips at all, the hornady is running as a 3rd option.

[Trap4570]

Spire points feed fine as far as I have tried them. Being more traditional - I stick with round points at 200 grains or there about. I don't bother much with high velocity or bullet design as much as I do felt recoil and shot placement. As far as bullets go - even the cast bullets perform very well at moderate range. It has been many years since I hunted a hog and technology has made decisions complicated. The old Krag rounds were used to take game as large as moose and it is from my experience hunting that it is not so much the gun or round that is important as it is the way the game presents itself. I think the art of the stalk and the patience to get a point of advantage is overlooked. Knowing the habits of the game and the habitat you are hunting in makes for a more exciting hunt to me. That's just my opinion.

[jon_norstog]

...... I think the art of the stalk and the patience to get a point of advantage is overlooked. Knowing the habits of the game and the habitat you are hunting in makes for a more exciting hunt to me. That's just my opinion.

That's a pretty good opinion, Trap.

jn