Early 30-06 cartridge question

[11mm]

I recently bought some old cartridges at a flea market. Among them were some old 30-06 to add to my collection. There were three "first model " guard cartridges, one of the "second model" and a tinned paper bullet blank. Three among them (not the second model guard cartridge) were head stamped FA and a date before the 30-06 was adopted i.e. 1905. One was stamped 6 06. They were all 30-06 length, however. The head stamp had a line through it, as was customary for salvaged cartridge cases used for blanks, etc. at the time.
It appears that that some of the 30-03 cartridges left over after conversion of the rifles to 30-06 were salvaged for reduced load use and shortened. The sources I read, including Brophy, do not mention this or I have not found it, but it is a small point, I am sure. Is this the usual case?
I have never had the opportunity to add a military 30-03 cartridge to my Springfield stuff. I do have a commercial example. The original military cartridges must be scarce in that chambering. I wonder if it is because most were converted for secondary use? I am looking at a small sample, I admit.

[raymeketa]

When the Model 1906 cartridge was adopted, there were more than 25 million of the Model 1903 rounds in stock. So, most of them were broken down and the cases shortened, resized, and used for the M1906 cartridge. About 1/3 of the early M1906 Ball cartridges were from the salvaged M1903 rounds. That's one of the reasons the M1903 military cartridges are so uncommon. Commercial M1903, OTOH, are easy to find.

Likewise, more than 10 million of the M1903 paper-bullet blank cartridges were converted to the M1906 length. Not by trimming, but simply by crimping the mouth of the loaded blanks allowing them to be chambered in the 03 Springfield.

A line cut across the base usually means a re-loaded case.

Headstamps on blank cartridges are usually of little help in determining the actual date of manufacture.

Ray

[11mm]

Thanks Ray.
Sounds like good information to me.
I do find it surprising that at the time they had 25 million 30-03 ball cartridges in stock they also had ten million blanks made up.

[raymeketa]

Millions is a small number when discussing the manufacture of military ammunition. Some individual lots could have consisted of 2 or 3 million cartridges. During WW II, more than one of the Ordnance Plants turned out cartridges numbered in the Billions.

What's amazing to me is that they converted 25 million of those M1903 cartridges, and yet, how often do you see one?

[11mm]

I understand, but 10 million blanks? It seems to be a little more than they might have needed for military funerals, salutes and training. And yes, you are right about availability of M1903 cartridges. Although I have some 30-06 examples from the 'teens, twenties and thirties, there are not many available that predate WW2.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

I have some military 30-03 rounds, including the weird pale white soft rounds with the FA 11 05 headstamp and other dates in stripper clips (I know squat about ammo).

jt

[raymeketa]

11mm

The number of blanks actually converted was recorded as 13 million. Don't forget, that's the number that were converted. There were many more in stock that were not. Data cards and sheets still exist showing the number of cartridges manufactured of each type. I have some of them but none for the M1903 and M1906 ammunition.

jt

The wierd pale white soft rounds are paper-bulleted blanks. With an FA 11 05 headstamp they are very likely the original M1903 blanks with the heavy crimp converting them to use in the 03 Springfield. If they are original, they are a lot less common than the converted ones.

Ray

[Lee T.]

Ray,
Could you possibly post a photo of a reloaded ctg that shows the 'line cut across the base'?
Thanks much, lee

[raymeketa]

Lee

I'd have to search my photos to see if I have one. It's not the kind of thing I ordinarily keep a photo of.

11mm said that he had some. Maybe he has a photo?

It is actually pretty simple really. Just a single light line filed across the base. Some were very faint and are hard to see.

Ray

[Rick the Librarian]

Here are some pictures of some I found at a gunshow some time ago. They appear to be "reconstructed" 30-03s made into 30-06. But I'm open to correction.

http://www.fototime.com/DDC88FBFBAA527F/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/CEE807BC7A56D24/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/A5A76E4549980C3/standard.jpg

Here is a legitimate 30-03 vs. a 30-06 for comparison:

http://www.fototime.com/16F3D988A10EAE3/standard.jpg

[11mm]

I will post pictures of the line across the base, but it will have to wait until tomorrow.

[11mm]

Ray,
Could you possibly post a photo of a reloaded ctg that shows the 'line cut across the base'?
Thanks much, lee

Here are some. Not great pictures, but my macro lens is out on loan.

[Lee T.]

11mm, Thanks for the photo! I was wondering how deep the cut was. Pretty good way to identify reloads as long as you know what to look for.