British .22RF Training Rifles

[usmc69]

I just ordered and received a copy of "British .22RF Training Rifles" by Lewis & Washburn. I got it from Amazon as a used book, cost was $3.25 & $2.65 shipping. Very interesting book for those that like these training rifle. It is 64 pages and lots of photographs and information. Well worth getting and reading.

[John Sukey]

While that's nice, "The Lee Enfield" by Ian Skennerton covers ALL of the rifles including the .22's

[usmc69]

While that's nice, "The Lee Enfield" by Ian Skennerton covers ALL of the rifles including the .22's

Thank you, John. However, I am only interested in the trainers.

[JB White]

Does that book cover some of the other British smallbores out there? ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/JBWhite/Martini/Martinis.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JBWhite/media/Martini/Martinis.jpg.html)

[da gimp]

daam jb, they're just junk, pure junk, hardly worth mentioning............. how do they shoot at 100yds & 200yds? They must surely be classified as surplus military asalt & apepper rifles in Illinois........... just to keep you from losing everything you have invested in 'em............. I'd be willing to give you maybe $20.00 for em, if you pay insured shipping of course.................(if you need to have the asalt & apepper terms explained to you............... I'm sure that Jesse senior, jr or de reverend al could explain it too you, if you hired them...............

[JB White]

Thank you Gimper. Good to know you're always watching out for me. Allow me to return the favor by informing you about your keyboard problem. Your decimal point always slides too far to the left. Perhaps a bit of canned air might help? Now...I know you're LIUNA, so I'll get one of my ol' UBC brothers to stop by your place and help you with that. If only to remind you which side of the can is 'up'.

Hey, did you hear the one about the twelve dumb concrete laborers who..... Never mind. I forgot.......you were there! ;)

[John Sukey]

Just curious, how many folks have the .22 inserts to convert your 303 rifles and the extra .22 bolts? (Allows the rifles to use either cartridges)

[JB White]

Came close. Same kit Numrich was offering for a long while many years ago? While interesting the feedback wasn't exactly favorable and I took a pass. I suppose you have a collection of Morris tubes? :)

I did have a Nazi marked conversion made for the K98 though. Made by Erma. A self contained unit which was a scaled down barrelled action with scaled down bolt that slipped in from the breech end. Used a breeching nut against the receiver ring to snug it in. Took advantage of the factory trigger. That one wasn't bad for shooting.
Came with a sportered rifle. A German collector talked me out of the conversion unit and the 8mm rifle became a donor action for a custom project. Still have the rifle.

*edit* Can't find a good pic of the Numrich version, but as I recall it had a muzzle nut? Just found a photo of the Erma via search engine.

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/573/9524605/img_2044.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg

[johnny l.]

I bought one of the Numrich .22 kits for my WW1 No.lll Enfield. It installed very easily and is fun to shoot. It is a single shot, no magazine. I did replace the steel nut for a brass one. I feel this will be easier on the crown. I have had no problems and it is an easy conversion.

Does anyone know if this kit can be made to fit the WW2 No. lV Enfield? I am not sure if the barrel length and .22 bolts are compatable. Regards, Johnny Lawson

[JB White]

The barrel length is the same in spite of the other differences. The boltheads do not interchange at all. The SMLE rides a rail on the outside while the No4 rides the inside.

[da gimp]

Thank you Gimper. Good to know you're always watching out for me. Allow me to return the favor by informing you about your keyboard problem. Your decimal point always slides too far to the left. Perhaps a bit of canned air might help? Now...I know you're LIUNA, so I'll get one of my ol' UBC brothers to stop by your place and help you with that. If only to remind you which side of the can is 'up'.

Hey, did you hear the one about the twelve dumb concrete laborers who..... Never mind. I forgot.......you were there! ;)

Thank you so much for spotting my error JB, I almost over paid you $ 36.00.......... I didn't realize I'd inadvertently offered you $20.00 each instead of the $ 2.00 each that I had intended to pay you for them (only if you pay the shipping too)...................

As BTBM says............ nanners rule, carpenters drool...........


:banana100::banana100::banana100::banana100::banan a100::banana100::banana100:

[usmc69]

Does that book cover some of the other British smallbores out there? ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/JBWhite/Martini/Martinis.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JBWhite/media/Martini/Martinis.jpg.html)

Just got my book back from a friend that was reading it. Sorry to say no Martini's are listed, except a Martini Enfield with a tube adapter.

[John Sukey]

Have one of those tube adapters for one of my Long Lees

[Alan De Enfield]

Does the book show one of these ?

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t219/Alan_de_Enfield/DSCF0029_zpsac523229.jpg

[usmc69]

Does the book show one of these ?

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t219/Alan_de_Enfield/DSCF0029_zpsac523229.jpg

Is that a No.7 Mk 1? The book mentions a couple of different magazines that were fitted to a couple of different rifles. Most just use a gutted .303 mag as a collection for the empties. Makes clean up after shooting pretty easy.

[Alan De Enfield]

Yup - a BSA No7 Mk1 - the ONLY .22rf Enfield trainer designed to be fitted with a magazine that fed cartridges instead of just catching the empties

A limited production of 2000 for the RAF

[da gimp]

How does it shoot Alan?

[Alan De Enfield]

How does it shoot Alan?

It shoots well and is great fun on the 100yd range

If I've been using my No4 and switch to the No7 I've had the range officer coming over and calling a cease fire assuming i've 'had a missfire' (he thinks - as he didnt hear a 303 going off)

There is plenty of time to fire, go and make a cup-of-tea, have a biscuit and return to the firing point in time to see the bullet strike.

All round good, low cost fun

[JB White]

Ever notice how as we go along, the more centerfires we get the larger the rimfire collection grows too?

[Ned Butts]

Picked this up last weekend
http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac174/nebutts/22%20conversion/IMG_10441_zps771e787c.jpg

[John Sukey]

Yup - a BSA No7 Mk1 - the ONLY .22rf Enfield trainer designed to be fitted with a magazine that fed cartridges instead of just catching the empties

A limited production of 2000 for the RAF

Not quite, there is also the one with the Parker-Hiscock magazine, but hens teeth are common compared to it. (also required the bolt to be modified, (more than just the bolt head)

[Alan De Enfield]

Not quite, there is also the one with the Parker-Hiscock magazine, but hens teeth are common compared to it. (also required the bolt to be modified, (more than just the bolt head)

Semantics maybe - but the No7 was the ONLY .22rf Enfield trainer designed to be fitted with a magazine that fed cartridges instead of just catching the empties.

The Parker Hiscock magazine was designed to fit an existing rifle in an attempt to make it 'magazine fed'

[tlvaughn]

Here are a couple for you, and one is not a No7.

[Alan De Enfield]

OK - its a fair cop. I'd forgotten the No5

[Johan412th]

So do they make .22 conversions for the MK3 that exist in today's market?

[Ned Butts]

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/502970.htm

[Alan De Enfield]

So do they make .22 conversions for the MK3 that exist in today's market?

When the No1 Mk3 was converted to a .22rf trainer it was called a No2 Mk4*

There are 1000's (if not 10s of 1000's) out 'in the wild'

[Johan412th]

When the No1 Mk3 was converted to a .22rf trainer it was called a No2 Mk4*

There are 1000's (if not 10s of 1000's) out 'in the wild'

So... Stupid question. Being in England, are you allowed to own surplus rifles like these?

[Alan De Enfield]

So... Stupid question. Being in England, are you allowed to own surplus rifles like these?

Yes
I have several Enfields in .22rf, .303 and 7.62 -= including

No1 Mk3*
No2 Mk4*
No4 Mk1*
No4T
No5 Mk1
No7 Mk1
L42A1

"Long Lee" and No4Mk1* in 410 shotgun

Despite 'internet rumours' it is not difficult to own firearms in the UK, its just a case of 'playing the paperwork game' with the Police

[Johan412th]

Thanks for solid answer. This l42a1 absolutely fascinates me. Are they hard to find?

[Alan De Enfield]

Thanks for solid answer. This l42a1 absolutely fascinates me. Are they hard to find?


If you have $15,000 you should be able to find one, at $10,000 you may find one & if you have $5000 then you wont find any.
There were 1000 made and they were (pretty much) all sold into the USA when they were sold out of service. They are now slowly starting to filter back into the UK but if you are in the US and have the $ then you should find one.

* L42 rifles are not generally sold 'on their own' they normally have the transit case and accessories, you may have seen recently (on ebay) the small plastic bottle that holds the lens cleaning brush, sell for about $800+
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171305492631?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[Johan412th]

We'll then. I'll just forget about getting one. I feel sufficiently schooled, Alan.

[John Sukey]

Have L39A1, L42A1 and out of curiosity, how many folks have a No.8?

I have that small plastic bottle and cleaning brush but I only paid a few dollars/pounds for mine

Bought the L42 and L39 while they were still crossing the Atlantic. Guessing they were all sold before the ship was unloaded:eek:

While I was at it, picked up an L59A1 at the same time

[Alan De Enfield]

Bought the L42 and L39 while they were still crossing the Atlantic. Guessing they were all sold before the ship was unloaded:eek:

While I was at it, picked up an L59A1 at the same time

I if remember correctly they were onboard "The Ark" with Captain Noah, and Pontius was the Pilot

[Kragrifle]

What is a No 5?

[dave]

No one has mentioned the 42MB model, many were sold in the US in the '60's. It is the only Brit trainer I own.

[JB White]

What is a No 5?

The No5 rifle is what some call a "jungle carbine". Normally in 303 but a very few rare examples were made up in .22.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/JBWhite/No5/5rtside.jpg

[fjruple]

I bought one of the Numrich .22 kits for my WW1 No.lll Enfield. It installed very easily and is fun to shoot. It is a single shot, no magazine. I did replace the steel nut for a brass one. I feel this will be easier on the crown. I have had no problems and it is an easy conversion.

Does anyone know if this kit can be made to fit the WW2 No. lV Enfield? I am not sure if the barrel length and .22 bolts are compatable. Regards, Johnny Lawson

Johnny--

I had purchase several of these conversion kit over the years to conversion military rifles to single .22LR rifles. I did and still have a No.4 MK2 that I converted. Obviously I could not use the bolt in the No.4 MK2 and acquired a Canadian No.7 MKI .22LR bolt to used in the rifle. I also placed a No.7MKI follower in the rifle for catching the spent cases.

I also used two kits .22LR barrel tubes to modified a M1 Rifle and M1A to single shot .22LR for indoor practice during the off season. Both of those rifles have highly modified bolts to feed, fire and extract the .22LR cartridge.

Cheers

--fjruple

[M2Phil]

[QUOTE=Alan De Enfield;367580]If you have $15,000 you should be able to find one, at $10,000 you may find one & if you have $5000 then you wont find any./QUOTE]

Is this really what L42A1's are going for now? If so, wow.

[johnny l.]

fjruple - Thanks for the info. I am now looking for a Canadian No. 7 MKI .22 cal. bolt. If you have any ideas, please let me know. I shoot my converted SMLE out to 100 yds and am very pleased with its accuracy. Regards, Johnny Lawson

[terrylee]

As the owner of an L42A1 with CES and other British 7.62mm conversions, I believe that I am qualified to pass comment on this rifle. As shooters I believe that the L42s are grossly overpriced and are not even in the same class as their close relative, the Enfield Enforcer. As historic collector's pieces they probably have more value. But here again, most is probably based upon the current "Sniper Rifle Craze". This, like most fads, is likely to pass leaving recent owners with an over-priced second class rifle.

[fjruple]

fjruple - Thanks for the info. I am now looking for a Canadian No. 7 MKI .22 cal. bolt. If you have any ideas, please let me know. I shoot my converted SMLE out to 100 yds and am very pleased with its accuracy. Regards, Johnny Lawson

Johnny -- If you are just looking for one to convert a No.4 MKI/MKI* or MK2 to .22LR. All you really need is the complete CNo.7 MKI bolt head. The normal .303 firing pin can be modified to work in the normal .303 bolt and depending on your machining skills you can modify the standard No.4 MKI bolt head and extractor to shoot .22LR. The only tools that you only need is access to a good drill press, a Dremel motor tool, a welder, and carbide drill bits and drill stock to make the .22LR firing pins. I have seen CNo.7 MKI bolts for sale on Ebay ocassionally.

Cheers

--fjruple

[johnny l.]

fjruple, Thank You for the info. I will be looking for this. The welding is the only issue for me. However, I am sure there is a good welder in Sierra Vista. Thanks again. Regards, Johnny Lawson

[Richardrose]

Hi, A lot has been said about the Brit .22s They did not always follow what has been written about the .22s. I have seen several No.2 mk4 made clear into the 1950s. I have a very little used No.2 mk4 , a 1918 which has a B.S.A. barrel it is marked 1955 rebuild. It is super accurate. magazine is filled with a block of soft wood. It is fun to watch people think it is going to have a loud report and it goes pop. Its a fine gun.