1877 Springfield

[antietamgw]

At least I think it is...

Greetings folks. After dropping in here and learning for a number of years, I finally joined up and hope to pick your brains a bit. I'm a shooter mostly and enjoy the early cartridge rifles. I've been shooting .45-70 for close to 40 years in antique and modern rifles but never owned a Springfield in .45 cal. An 1868 in 50 cal with the Bannerman touch has given me a lot of pleasure over the years though.

A friend has had this carbine for years and has no interest in it. He has offered to sell or swap it to me. I want to be sure that this will be a fair deal for both of us. I can't think of a forum with more Trapdoor knowledge out there and I'm hoping you folks might be able to help us out here. I'd like to establish whether it's a "right" carbine, maybe whether it's listed in the SRS and possiibly a fair value for it. I'm going to try and upload a couple pics he took. They aren't great. I hope to get my daughter to take some with her camera that will better represent it. I put a bunch of his pics on my photobucket album, linked below, and will try to get a few of them in this post.

Thanks kindly!

http://s65.photobucket.com/user/Antietamgw/library/1877%20Springfield

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/Antietamgw/1877%20Springfield/1877Springfield002_zps6f19681b.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/Antietamgw/1877%20Springfield/1877Springfield025_zps6f6094e5.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/Antietamgw/media/1877%20Springfield/1877Springfield025_zps6f6094e5.jpg.html)http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/Antietamgw/1877%20Springfield/1877Springfield027_zps323e4ba8.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/Antietamgw/media/1877%20Springfield/1877Springfield027_zps323e4ba8.jpg.html)[IMG][URL=http://s65.photobucket.com/user/Antietamgw/media/1877%20Springfield/1877Springfield006_zps6606436a.jpg.html][IMG]http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/Antietamgw/1877%20Springfield/1877Springfield006_zps6606436a.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/Antietamgw/media/1877%20Springfield/1877Springfield005_zpsc0f83bfa.jpg.html)http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/Antietamgw/1877%20Springfield/1877Springfield030_zps9b98206a.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/Antietamgw/media/1877%20Springfield/1877Springfield030_zps9b98206a.jpg.html)

[Dick Hosmer]

That'a a little earlier than mine (89998, below) though I did once own 88125. It certainly is an "1877" carbine by serial number, and it has the rather scarce narrow (pre 96300) breechblock with filled (low) arch. Of course it has the improved stock with thick wrist and butt trap, as it should, but is the inletting flush at barrel/receiver point, or is there a "step" which would accommodate a wider receiver? It should be flush. I'm guessing that cartouche - if there is one - is ESA/1878 in large oval? The only visible upgrade is the 1879 rear sight. As made, it would have had the 1877, which has the curved base (600yds.) but lacks the buckhorn eyepiece.

That number does not occur in the SRS records, at least through 1995. Closest are 88716 and 88877

[antietamgw]

Thank you for the information and fast response! It's good to know that it appears to right, other than the rear sight. The receiver inletting fits the receiver properly. The cartouche is extremely faint - you can see an outline but just barely. The wood in that area has sure seen some use, from the saddle ring and sling I'd expect. The bore shows wear - the lands are strong but the grooves dark. I want to clean the bore as it's been sitting in a gun cabinet for 50 years that my friend knows of. That would give a much better idea of it's condition. Is the quality of the pics enough to get an idea of condition or a possible value?

[Dan Shapiro]

Check here and scroll down to the carbines listed for an idea on pricing.

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/springfieldarms.html

[antietamgw]

Thanks to all for the info. I was able to pick up the carbine yesterday evening and clean the bore. Must have had RIG and dust in the bore as it cleaned up very very nice. It appears though that it's value is probably higher than I want to invest in what to me will be a shooter. I suspect what we are going to do is sell this carbine and I'll build one to suit my needs from bits, pieces, a new .458 barre and new or maybe cut wood. I'm a cobbler at heart anyway and have the tooling and equipment to handle the barrel work. Time is another story though...

I did not expect to be able to get away from the farm today but weather and plans changed so I was able to head down to the Baltimore show this morning. I'd met Al Frasca there some years back and he helped with info and advice on my 1868 Bannerman special and pointed me to who to deal with for a couple parts I needed. He is generally set up pretty close to Mr Knisley, who usually has parts I need. I didn't see him and asked Mrs Knisley if she knew if Al was set up elsewhere. She told me that Al had become sick the morning before and thought that he had gone to the hospital with suspected gall bladder issues. Maybe when you bow your head this evening, think of Mr Frasca and ask for his quick recovery.

[Dick Hosmer]

You have a pretty scarce "transitional" piece, with the 'overlapping' breechblock features. You should be able to get a good price for it, or, you just might want to reconsider and keep it, as you might have a very hard time finding another - I say this since you are OK with a put-together for shooting. One such can be assembled pretty cheaply if you are a good scrounger and don't insist on carbine parts. If you do decide to sell, I'd be glad to help you write a proper description - this shouldn't just be blown off at a local show. Or, since you know Al, sell it through him - he can also make sure you ask enough money - it is not just any run-of-the-mill carbine.

[antietamgw]

You have a pretty scarce "transitional" piece, with the 'overlapping' breechblock features..


I've not been on the computer the last few weeks . Things got pretty hectic between family and farm with the weather changing up as it has been. All the "spare" time has been trying to get the finishing touches on a building before we get busy with field work. Thanks to everyone for the help and info, I'm glad I came here and apologize for the long delay in responding. I did clean the bore - must have been stored with RIG or something similar. A couple wet patches of Kroil had it clean and shining. I believe it would be a shooter, which makes my decision even tougher. As much as I like Trapdoors, I'm not a collector of them. I have a few Ballards, Rolling Blocks and a Hepburn that I shoot, when I get time. I would be very happy just having a nice Trapdoor shooter and truthfully, would prefer to rebarrel or maybe have Bob Hoyt line one for me. I do my own gun cobbling and lately it seems that I get more time in the shop than I do on the range. My eyesight is getting to the point where the issue sights on my 1868 are almost unusable for me. I wouldn't mind making up a .45-70 with a tang sight and a front sight I can use. I can still shoot an aperture sight fairly well. Price is also a consideration. It's more important to me that my friend get a fair price for the carbine - he needs it and it is likely more than I feel like I can afford. I look to get it sold for him. Dick, I appreciate your kind offer to help with a description - I'm going to send you a PM. I don't really know Al Frasca, just talked with him a few times at the Baltimore show, doubt he even remembers me. He helped me out with some info about my 1868 "Bannerman Cadet" a few years back and I've been stopping by his table to say hello each year since.