View Full Version : Melted lead WARNING !!!!
Just a word of caution to you who cast your own bullets. This subject may have come up before but if so I'm not aware of it. Many years ago I was melting some old tire weights in my electric Lee Production Pot. All was going well and I had melted quite a few weights and cast a bunch of bullets. I ran out of weights that had been stored inside my workshop so I went outside and gathered some from a 5 gal. bucket. The weights appeared to be dry but low and behold they harbored some moisture. When I put a couple into the nearly full pot of molted lead the moisture flashed off with a "boom" and emptied the pot on the 8' ceiling. Of course from there it splattered and went everywhere else. Somehow I didn't get burned. So, even though these things looked dry some moisture was present in the dust or oxidation on the lead. Obviously it doesn't take much so be careful. From that day forth I have used only lead stored inside and spread out where I know w/o a doubt it is dry. Another good reason to wear safety glasses too.
Hefights
03-26-2014, 07:09
"Somehow I didn't get burned." Lucky lucky lucky. Yep molten lead has zero tolerance for moisture. So you have to have a "zero defects" process when it comes to making sure the product going into the pot is dry.
Of course it slows things down but I always put whatever I'm smelting in a cold pot then heat it. Any missed moisture can steam off as it warms. Glad the lead fountain missed you.
Matt Anthony
03-27-2014, 02:54
Glad to hear you didn't get burned or lose your eyesight. Any one who starts casting should read, read and read some more before plugging in the furnace. Lyman's cast bullet manuals are probably the best source for beginners and veteran casters.
I don't have any horror stories as I follow a strict protocol on alloy storage, furnace and tool maint and safety glasses and a face shield.
I just purchased 40 lbs. of Hard Ball from Roto Metals for $123.60, free shipping on any purchase over 100 bucks. I could of purchased from Missouri Bullet, 66 lbs. for @$143.88 plus $14.00 shipping. Roto is higher in price but I know their alloy and it's right on.
As all of you know the EPA has shuttered the last lead smelter here in the states. Now we must mine the ore, send it overseas for smelting, then ship it back here. This will increase the price perhaps to our breaking point. I hope it does so Americans take back their country from these damn liberal do gooder people controllers. Anyway, the company could not spend the 100 million dollars to upgrade the plant to the new EPS regulations. This is good chance for Mexico or Canada to build a plant right near the borders and cash in on our stupidity!
This is not gun control according to the O administration, it's about the enviroment. Bull Hockey I say, this fixation on lead being so harmful is just not true. It's far safer than the gasoline they approve of! I am getting irritated on all of the lies polititians shove down our throats. Be a voice or we will lose it all.................
Matt
always exciting. ive worked for a few years in the lead plant of a major ammo manufacturer, and it's always exciting when someone throws a wet lead ingot into an 800deg pot.
madsenshooter
03-30-2014, 12:52
I swept up some drippings from my Lee Drippy once, threw them back into the pot. Lo and behold, there was a live primer amongst the other silver things. It all missed me, but I had a lot more little drippings to sweep up and scrape off the ceiling. More power in a LR primer than what you'd think! Yea Matt, you're right, it isn't as harmful as they're making out. I read one greenie post that was talking about the oxides coming off wheelweights building up along the roadside. No it's the many years of tetraethyl lead that is along the roadside. Still, I knew a mechanic that washed his hands in leaded gasoline several times per day since the end of WWII. He only lived to be 82.
Early in my career I thought I might like to be a plumber. While working with a plumber the solder pot exploded. No one got hurt but I decided plumbing was not for me.
I swept up some drippings from my Lee Drippy once, threw them back into the pot. Lo and behold, there was a live primer amongst the other silver things. It all missed me, but I had a lot more little drippings to sweep up and scrape off the ceiling. More power in a LR primer than what you'd think! Yea Matt, you're right, it isn't as harmful as they're making out. I read one greenie post that was talking about the oxides coming off wheelweights building up along the roadside. No it's the many years of tetraethyl lead that is along the roadside. Still, I knew a mechanic that washed his hands in leaded gasoline several times per day since the end of WWII. He only lived to be 82.
The lead is gone now from gasoline but it still can contain hazardous chemicals, the main one being benzene. Gasoline is so thin it penetrates the skin easily as well. Back in my younger days I worked on my cars quite often and got my hands plenty greasy. I used to soak them in what was convenient which was always gasoline. Times have changed.
Congrats on your introduction to the Tinsel Fairy! Most of us who have been casting for many years have met the Fairy one or more times....
I would have guessed a "puff" or a "sizzzzzzz" with the addition of a tiny bit of water but not a "boom" with enough force to empty the pot. All of this with probably less than one drop of water. Like I said, the weights looked dry and I only put two of them in the pot. I hope this warning keeps someone from having a very bad day.
Matt Anthony
04-04-2014, 02:51
I swept up some drippings from my Lee Drippy once, threw them back into the pot. Lo and behold, there was a live primer amongst the other silver things. It all missed me, but I had a lot more little drippings to sweep up and scrape off the ceiling. More power in a LR primer than what you'd think! Yea Matt, you're right, it isn't as harmful as they're making out. I read one greenie post that was talking about the oxides coming off wheelweights building up along the roadside. No it's the many years of tetraethyl lead that is along the roadside. Still, I knew a mechanic that washed his hands in leaded gasoline several times per day since the end of WWII. He only lived to be 82.
The EPA and other Federal agencies and most State Governments continue to push the lie that lead is an evil material. In Illinois it is illegal to install lead wheel weights on any vehicle. A repair facility must buy the new steel wheel weights which has caused an increase in expense for the end user, the consumer.
Lead is a natural occuring metal, in fact it's depleated uranium, but in the natural setting. Lead is our friend, used in hundreds of products, but has been misunderstood or should I say, "Americans have been hoodwinked" into believing lead is evil! Lead has saved many of lives, without it we could not of won WWII. I guess in the war case it's bad for the receiver of lead but good for the victors!
Another thing that is surprising is the lead paint BS! Poor ghetto babies getting lead poisoning from eating paint chips or sucking on window sills or baseboards. This is simply the biggest conspiracy the government has pushed down our throats. An entire industry changing the composition of their product because little babies are sucking on paint. BS, they probably were sucking on the bullets their daddy keeps on the tables and floors of their subsidised housing.......
Regardless of the game changers and government dummies, lead is our friend and if we don't start voicing our displeasure on government regulations, we are doomed to a world of total people control. We are presently almost there, but it's never too late to stop them.
Matt
If I remember correctly, water expands something like 1200 times when turning to steam. That is a lot of expansion! Lead in the evironment? Did you know that the lake bottom off Camp Perry has at least 8 feet of lead built up over the years and the EPA water tests couldn't detect any lead in the water. Congress declared the waters off Camp Perry to be a Nation Strategic Minerals Reserve to prevent the EPA from shutting down the ranges and forcing the Army to clean out the lead!
Our toothpaste used to come in tubes made of lead. Sometimes it would even color the toothpaste gray while being squeezed out. They haven't been discontinued all that long ago either.
older than dirt
04-05-2014, 06:46
The EPA and other Federal agencies and most State Governments continue to push the lie that lead is an evil material. In Illinois it is illegal to install lead wheel weights on any vehicle. A repair facility must buy the new steel wheel weights which has caused an increase in expense for the end user, the consumer.
Lead is a natural occuring metal, in fact it's depleated uranium, but in the natural setting. Lead is our friend, used in hundreds of products, but has been misunderstood or should I say, "Americans have been hoodwinked" into believing lead is evil! Lead has saved many of lives, without it we could not of won WWII. I guess in the war case it's bad for the receiver of lead but good for the victors!
Another thing that is surprising is the lead paint BS! Poor ghetto babies getting lead poisoning from eating paint chips or sucking on window sills or baseboards. This is simply the biggest conspiracy the government has pushed down our throats. An entire industry changing the composition of their product because little babies are sucking on paint. BS, they probably were sucking on the bullets their daddy keeps on the tables and floors of their subsidised housing.......
Regardless of the game changers and government dummies, lead is our friend and if we don't start voicing our displeasure on government regulations, we are doomed to a world of total people control. We are presently almost there, but it's never too late to stop them.
Matt
.Right on Matt.
Hefights
04-06-2014, 12:01
I swept up some drippings from my Lee Drippy once, threw them back into the pot. Lo and behold, there was a live primer amongst the other silver things. It all missed me, but I had a lot more little drippings to sweep up and scrape off the ceiling. More power in a LR primer than what you'd think! Yea Matt, you're right, it isn't as harmful as they're making out. I read one greenie post that was talking about the oxides coming off wheelweights building up along the roadside. No it's the many years of tetraethyl lead that is along the roadside. Still, I knew a mechanic that washed his hands in leaded gasoline several times per day since the end of WWII. He only lived to be 82.
LOL, one of the better stories I've heard in a while, glad you were not hit. I've been playing around with leady stuff for a long time and have had a lot of potential exposure, including messy cleaning pistols shootiing lead bullets thousands of times, cleaning messy BP guns, handling lead bullets frequently, all with bare hands, and inhaling the vapors at indoor ranges over a long time, etc. I had a blood test once, no elevated lead levels at all.
madsenshooter
04-06-2014, 02:57
Back in the early 60's when I was around 5, there was a family next door that had over 20 kids. With that many in the family, naturally they were poor. One day a couple of them that were a few years older than me called me between a couple of houses. They were eating paint chips off the side of house! "Try it", they said. "Tastes like potato chips". I did, and it wasn't my flavor. The now common potato chip was at that time a luxury item that they seldom got to partake of. Closest thing they probably got was the thin slices of fried taters that came with the daily beans. In time, one of those kids wound up with a plastic throat. Whether or not eating paint chips as a kid was the cause of that, I can't say.
Matt Anthony
04-06-2014, 02:58
If I remember correctly, water expands something like 1200 times when turning to steam. That is a lot of expansion! Lead in the evironment? Did you know that the lake bottom off Camp Perry has at least 8 feet of lead built up over the years and the EPA water tests couldn't detect any lead in the water. Congress declared the waters off Camp Perry to be a Nation Strategic Minerals Reserve to prevent the EPA from shutting down the ranges and forcing the Army to clean out the lead!
Is there an article one could search for that states that there is 8 ft. of lead at the bottom of the lake. That is incredible!
madsenshooter
04-06-2014, 03:56
Hmm, missed the tidbit you quoted Matt, I had heard that the area behind the ranges is dredged from time to time. Where that would be dumped I don't know. Speaking of lead tidbits: https://archive.org/stream/NationalLeadCompanyLeadProductsForIndustryAndTrade/NationalLeadCompanyProductsForIndustryAndTrade-CatalogNo.47j#page/n0/mode/2up In its elemental form it is poorly absorbed if ingested, it doesn't become a problem unless it's in an organic form, like the tetraethyl. Here's some more interesting tidbits: http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=7&po=4 Says lead doesn't conduct electricity! Then how does the electricity from my battery get to the starter of my car? Also says both inorganic and organic forms were used in gasoline. Govt misinformation for you.
John Sukey
04-07-2014, 12:31
Still have a small brown burn spot on one leg from casting lead many years ago:icon_lol:
psteinmayer
04-07-2014, 07:28
Here's some more interesting tidbits: http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=7&po=4 Says lead doesn't conduct electricity! Then how does the electricity from my battery get to the starter of my car?
Funny, the line about conducting electricity immediately follows the word Solder.... Why is lead used as solder for electrical connections if it doesn't conduct? In fact, not only are automotive battery terminals made of lead, so are the plates inside! LOL Hogwash!!!
holdover
04-09-2014, 05:54
as I under stand the Doe Run shutdown it started back in 2008... Per NRA
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2013/10/end-of-an-era-last-us-lead-smelter-to-close-in-december.aspx
"Doe Run made significant efforts to reduce lead emissions from the smelter, but in 2008 the federal Environmental Protection Agency issued new National Ambient Air Quality Standards for lead that were 10 times tighter than the previous standard. Given the new lead air quality standard, Doe Run made the decision to close the Herculaneum smelter."
can't blame this one on the POS that lives in the big white house
older than dirt
04-09-2014, 07:46
as I under stand the Doe Run shutdown it started back in 2008... Per NRA
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2013/10/end-of-an-era-last-us-lead-smelter-to-close-in-december.aspx
"Doe Run made significant efforts to reduce lead emissions from the smelter, but in 2008 the federal Environmental Protection Agency issued new National Ambient Air Quality Standards for lead that were 10 times tighter than the previous standard. Given the new lead air quality standard, Doe Run made the decision to close the Herculaneum smelter."
can't blame this one on the POS that lives in the big white house
Yes you can blame him. He could do one of his "Dickatater Wana-Be" acts & over ride the EPA with pen & paper for an execrative order.
A pitcher of Margaritas and a pot full of molten lead definitely can lead to burned feet and ruined clothing.......I make all of the mistakes so you guys don't have to.
Doe runs emmissions were actually better than either Mo.'s DNR requirements or the US EPA standards.... what was killing them was the fact that the entire area down there was heavily contaminated in the preceding 100 years or so........... and these contaminate all te samples being drawn now,............. Doe Run can't win the long term legal wars against a slew of gov't lawyers & regulators that want to be able to brag that they shut Doe Run down...............
The politicians and the EPA does not have a clue.
Here in MO we have a $.50 tax on every lead/acid battery sold. The stated purpose of the tax is it is supposed to compensate the State for all the expense it has incurred in cleaning up discarded car batteries. That is bald faced lie. Ninety seven percent of those batteries are made from recycled lead... nobody throws away lead anymore.
As far as cleaning up "dump sites" there are people out there that would gladly do it for free. Oh, that lake that has eight feet of leadon it's bottom? I guarantee you there are lots of companies that would pay the Government big bucks to have that contract!
BTW, as of today the price of lead on the London Metal Exchange is jost over $1,900/ton. That means recyclers will be paying $.25 - $.30
/lb. for junk batteries. The average car battery weighs 33lbs. and is worth $7.50 - $10.00. How many people dump $10 bills into the garbage?
Sportsdad60
08-01-2016, 08:06
Reminds me of a guy in 1979 that started a fire while deburring magnesium aircraft parts on a wheel at the company I work for (Boeing)
He got a nice big pile of magnesium dust built up and somehow managed to ignite it. So what does he do? Threw water on it.
That was some fun excitement!
PhillipM
08-02-2016, 04:11
The lead is gone now from gasoline but it still can contain hazardous chemicals, the main one being benzene. Gasoline is so thin it penetrates the skin easily as well. Back in my younger days I worked on my cars quite often and got my hands plenty greasy. I used to soak them in what was convenient which was always gasoline. Times have changed.
As a child in the 70's the grownups called gasoline either red or white. I asked dad the difference and he said put red in the car and use wHite to wash parts!
Matt, IIRC, you have it backwards. The lead smelter that shut down processed virgin lead. There are plenty of smelters reclaiming car batteries and such. I saw some peculiar looking lead batteries at a scrap yard that were cell phone tower back up batteries. The case was lead instead of plastic. I almost bought on for the novelty.
PhillipM
08-02-2016, 04:14
Reminds me of a guy in 1979 that started a fire while deburring magnesium aircraft parts on a wheel at the company I work for (Boeing)
He got a nice big pile of magnesium dust built up and somehow managed to ignite it. So what does he do? Threw water on it.
That was some fun excitement!
Class D fires are fun!
I have not read all the posts, so excuse if this has been mentioned. Every safety instruction I ever read said NEVER add more lead to a melted pot. For the very reason of what happened to poster. Get it all in there, melted at once so any moisture or anything else is heated gradually!
Think about it. Heating something cold causes moisture from condensation to form. Single pane windows in winter is a great example.
The weights probably were dry but placing a cold piece of lead into a pot of molten lead can cause moisture from condensation to form and result in a violent steam explosion.
It's safer to allow the molten lead to cool and harden, add more lead and reheat. This was a hard lesson learned by many, I'm sure. Glad you weren't injured.
[QUOTE=PhillipM;466281]As a child in the 70's the grownups called gasoline either red or white. I asked dad the difference and he said put red in the car and use wHite to wash parts!
Yup the white gas was Amoco. It had no lead additives in it. It was responsible for a lot of burned out values in cars back then in the mid 60's onward using high test gas. They needed the lead to lube the values back then.
Think about it. Heating something cold causes moisture from condensation to form. Single pane windows in winter is a great example.
The weights probably were dry but placing a cold piece of lead into a pot of molten lead can cause moisture from condensation to form and result in a violent steam explosion.
It's safer to allow the molten lead to cool and harden, add more lead and reheat. This was a hard lesson learned by many, I'm sure. Glad you weren't injured.
The added lead sinks at least deep enough so there is no "condensation", does not stay or get cold, once in the melt.
The added lead sinks at least deep enough so there is no "condensation", does not stay or get cold, once in the melt.
Sorry for not agreeing with you Dave. Accidental steam explosions were once common in the steel business that used to be here in Pittsburgh.
PhillipM
08-05-2016, 03:11
Condensation is the moisture in the air condensing into liquid water. I'm not seeing how a dry piece of lead dumped in a pot can have any moisture condense on it resulting in a steam explosion.:icon_scratch:
I have not read all the posts, so excuse if this has been mentioned. Every safety instruction I ever read said NEVER add more lead to a melted pot. For the very reason of what happened to poster. Get it all in there, melted at once so any moisture or anything else is heated gradually!
I agree with this post. My theory is cold lead is added to molten lead produces a steam explosion. Any other theorys are welcome. Obvious, it's a dangerous practice and should be avoided.
PhillipM
08-05-2016, 04:48
I agree with this post. My theory is cold lead is added to molten lead produces a steam explosion. Any other theorys are welcome. Obvious, it's a dangerous practice and should be avoided.
Why is the lead colder than ambient temperature?
Read Allen's original post. So, why do you think the pot exploded when the cold weights were added?
PhillipM
08-05-2016, 08:39
Read Allen's original post. So, why do you think the pot exploded when the cold weights were added?
so I went outside and gathered some from a 5 gal. bucket
It rains here.
I used to do contracted work in various steel mills and can remember a small mill that had a steam explosion when pouring molten steel into a wet ingot mold that killed the crane operator.
Hefights
09-03-2016, 12:36
Very interesting thread, continues to inform and entertain.
Very interesting thread, continues to inform and entertain.
Stay safe by being informed.
Here is a video that points out the dangers of adding cold lead to molten lead. This guy seems to know what he is doing and is video taping himself melting a large quantity of lead. It looks like he has some sort of a backyard business going. Watch what happens when he adds a cold piece of hollow lead pipe to a molten pot of lead. CAUTION - coarse language. Air may have been trapped inside the hollow of the pipe and possibly combined with some moisture to produce the explosion. The reaction is instantaneous. Obviously, this guy has added cold lead to molten lead many times without any explosions. You just never know when the conditions are right for one to occur.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=50T3sxiExbM
Fred Pillot
11-17-2017, 05:44
I watched the video of the exploding lead pot. What happened was when the guy placed the lead pipe in the molten lead pot sideways, the lead rushed into both ends of the pipe plugging the two ends. The air inside the pipe expanded from the heat and blew the molten lead out of the pipe and throwing lead out of the pot.
- - - Updated - - -
By the way. What is the common advice for avoiding lead fumes while using an electric pot indoors? Should there be a hood with and evacuation fan? Is there a danger? I've always done it outside on my BBQ. Made a pot with nozzles to make #8 lead shot. Worked really well. I had 40 lbs. of lead and time on my hands. I learned quite a bit.
Another thing that is surprising is the lead paint BS! Poor ghetto babies getting lead poisoning from eating paint chips or sucking on window sills or baseboards. This is simply the biggest conspiracy the government has pushed down our throats. An entire industry changing the composition of their product because little babies are sucking on paint. The ignorance of this statement is palpable. Fact is ... lead poisoning of this type was and remains a problem. Happily because of regulations in place, much of the risk is greatly reduced. Removing lead from gasoline was one of the main reasons lead levels dropped in adults and children. Removal of lead from paint has been nothing but a net positive good for everyone concerned. Old lead paint in buildings remains a real problem, a risk to one and all. Anyone at all involved in renovation ... it is a concern. You come home with the dust on your shoes/cloths. Your children get exposed to it. You got problems. The sooner that all lead residue can be removed from all older homes the better.
The last lead smelter in the US is now closed? Heard about that. Also understand that the results for anyone living down wind of such smelters was very much bad. Did the owners of the sweltering operation pay for the health issues, etc.? Very much doubt it. Will lead now cost more? Yes. Just like everything else. We will not be able to get free lead from local service stations,etc. But, fact is there are not many local service stations left any more. They went away ... just like so much else went away ... because they were not as cheap as the local convenience store. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.
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