Comments on this trench gun

[mfinley919]

Trying to learn and recognize the good and the bad and the real and the not real...

any comments on this trench gun for sale and estimates at it's value?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=405817656#PIC

Much appreciate observations and what you see so I can learn from those with more experience.

THanks

Mike

[joem]

Well it was not used in WWI. IMHO it's priced above what it should sell for but is a nice example.

[Tom Doniphon]

It is a WWI 1897 trench gun. The hand stamped martial markings look right too, but I would want to examine them up close to confirm that. It was likely made in 1917, not 1920 like the seller claims. The condition is a bit rough. One issue I see is the xtra P proof mark on the barrel. The xtra P proof mark is not real clear in the photos, but it may be the proof mark Winchester placed on replacement barrels. And yes, some replacement barrels have both the Winchester WP proof as well as a second P in a circle proof mark.

[SPEEDGUNNER]

It looks like what you would expect a war used trenchgun to look like. The WWI guns rarely exhibit the bright shiney finish found on the WWII guns. If they saw service in WWI, they would continue to see service between the wars and maybe even into WWII depending on how and who they were deployed with. It looks right, although in the pictures the wood appears much nicer than the metal, but that could just be the lighting. A true WWI gun is hard enough to find in any condition, so this one isn't a bad deal at all.

[Peconga]

I'm no expert on authenticity, but I love the look of that one especially the first couple of pictures with it hanging above a rough-hewn fireplace.

Here's the picture (which should be up for a few months at least)

http://www.jeremiahjohnsontrading.com/Steve_1897_Winchester_Trench_Gun_WWI_Solid_Frame_0 39.JPG

[GWS]

Just looked at this. While most of it looks ok, the bayonet adapter should have "Pat. Applied For" on the right side of the adapter by the sling swivel. Probably a later adapter and the little flaming bomb under the US stamping does not look quite right but could just be the photo.

[Weasel]

Sold $2900.00. I would say that's a good buy.

[jonnyo55]

The one thing that I'd question is the fact that the "US" stamping is off register...the "U" is not on the same level as the "S". There's a reparked Model 12 trench that appears regularly at the Louisville shows that's the same way; apparently enough other guys think the same as I as it was still there in February. It looks like the two letters were stamped individually. Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense that a huge gun factory like WRA would not make up a single die to stamp the "US" once a government contract was in hand, and then set up a stamping press to do the job.

What makes more sense (to me, anyway) is that somebody found a police or prison guard gun and decided to augment the value a bit by adding some GI provenance in his garage. Remember, trench guns could be bought as a standard item from WRA through your friendly local hardware store back then...

[jonnyo55]

Sorry, double post....

[Tom Doniphon]

They are hand stamped marks. That's the way some of the WWI Model 1897 trench guns were marked. And they may have been marked by the Govt' that way after they left the factory. We may never know for sure when they were marked. But those hand stamped markings are the same as those found on Winder muskets and on the Winchester Model 1894 lever action carbines from WWI that were sent to the Signal Corps.