RP 30-06 SPRG brass

[Smf834]

I picked up some brass with that headstamp, i just want to confirm that they are not crimped primer pockets, and that they are reloadable like any other commercial brass. Is it good brass to reload?

[Tuna]

No crimped primer pockets and very reloadable. Standard commercial boxer primed brass.

[Kurt]

Remington Peters brass, good to go.

[SemperFi, 0321]

Smf834,
I'm a bit confused as to why crimped brass would warrant a question of reloadability. The majority of brass that I've reloaded in the last 35+ yrs was crimped, I used to scavenge 1,000's brass off the USMC ranges in any small arms caliber I could get. It's not like crimped brass is "bad", it just takes an extra step to fix.
A simple primer pocket swage is not that expensive and is easy to use. Invest in one and learn to use it.

[fguffey]

Hatcher on crimped primers: I use my pocket knife to remove the crimp.

Advantage of the crimped primer, if the primer is crimped the case is once fired.

Disadvantage to non crimped commercial cases, no one knows how many times the case has been fired if they pick the cases up at a range.

Advantage to commercial, new, factory cases from R-P, the case head. Military case head thickness for surplus ammo has a case head thickness of .200". All of my R-P cases have a case head thickness of .260". That means nothing to no one but me. If for what ever reason the case head gets crushed and the case head expands the case head gets thinner. I prefer the .260" case head thickness over the .200" thickness because, I have no interest in taking advantage of all the gas escape handling designs of modern weapons, the extra .060" aids in all that hot, high pressure metal cutting gas from escaping while the case head is not supported.

There is unsupported case head and there is case head protrusion, I am the fan of cutting down on all that case travel by controlling the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head.

Then there is that part where military cases are heavier than commercial cases, I just said the case head of the R-P is thicker than the case head of the military case by .060", if that is true, why is the military case heavier?

Simple, the military case body is thicker, does that make a difference? Yes, the two powder columns are not the same length, the military case has a longer powder column than the commercial case. The commercial case has a shorter powder column that is larger in diameter.

Crimped and non crimped is not the only difference.

F. Guffey

[SemperFi, 0321]

F.G.
Lots of folks refuse to pick up used brass for exactly the reasons you stated, however, lots of others choose to clean, trim and re-use brass, and if you're half way smart, you can usually tell new factory cases from reloads. For all practical purposes, unless you're a benchrest shooter, shooting used brass is not a sin and a means of keeping reloading affordable. I've had lots of case head separations from new military brass in military weapons also, so who decides what's really safe and what isn't?
You can continue to buy R-P brass because it suits your needs and is safer according to your standards, the rest of us will continue to shoot up all the rest of the brass that the world has been shooting safely for over 100 yrs. Does Win or Fed brass follow the same thickness rules as R-P or is all other brass unsafe too? That is what you're alluding to isn't it?
You're splitting hairs here, and just starting another one of those discussions of 5.56 vs .223, Ford vs Chevy, or whatever else people like to argue about. I know shooters like you, who have to measure and weigh and re measure every case before they break them into groups, and keep log books on every single case they've ever fired, that's fine for you, but again, not every reloader is that obsessed with perfection.
I simply stated that crimped primers are not bad and easy to fix, and a swage sure beats a pocket knife for consistency and safety also.

[fguffey]

I simply stated that crimped primers are not bad and easy to fix, and a swage sure beats a pocket knife for consistency and safety also. and I said Hatcher thought it was so easy he fixed the problem with his pocket knife.

I did not say I did not have and or use military cases, I have no fewer than 6.000 30/06 military cases. I did not say I only used commerce 30/06 cases, I have no fewer than 4.000 commercial 30/06 cases.

Chuck in Denver was complaining about threads and responses becoming fewer and further apart, I suggested rude responses could be part of the problem, I also suggested members should make responders feel welcome.

The OP asked about crimps, I suggested there were other differences, I also ask "WHO MEASURES?

F. Guffey

[Kurt]

Gentlemen, I think it would help to keep in mind that the OP is new to reloading or looking into it. That said, recommendations should be kept to the safe basics and not so much into the nitty gritty opinions we all acquire over time and experience.

Range brass is not what I would advise anyone new to reloading to pick up and use until some experience has been gained in what to look for. Neck sized only brass is hard to tell from new as the tell tale belt line will not be there. In addition, you don't know the gun it was shot in, particularly in some of the old surplus guns. I would not say don't pick it up, but keep it in stash and when you know the what, how and have the tools to check it, then maybe.

As to brands of brass. All of it is ok, some better than others but only when it comes down to how precise you want to be. Consistency is the priority with any of it, don't mix brands if your goal is consistency.

Good luck

Ps, Mr. Guffey,
I have weighed just about every brand of 06 brass over the years. I can tell you the FC is the heaviest and most consistent weight wise out of most of the popular off the shelf brands. One of the three lightest is the military surplus Greek HXP. RP in one box of once fired varied 7 grn's from heaviest to lightest. Not the worst, but certainly down the list a bit. I'm not ragging on your choice or reasons, we all have our own stash of those, just saying from a consistency standpoint it's not stellar.

[fguffey]

I'm not ragging on your choice or reasons,

I assumed reloaders claimed military brass was heavier than commercial brass. my military brass has thin case heads, reloaders, after claiming military cases are heavier they make a qualifying statement: "Because they are thicker". That is not true, the case heads are thinner and the case body is thicker.

ragging on my choice, I expected that, by choice, I have one case head stamp I will save and collect. One manufacturer/arsenal took liberties, they decided they would reduce the number of times they annealed cases from beginning to end. It is believed the case heads could result in catastrophic failure so they sold the cases for scrap. I had a dealer in New Jersey that set aside junk he thought I would have an interest in.

It was years before I read about the possibility there were cases that had been manufactured with suspect annealing, by that time I had already loaded and fired half of them. They were and are fine looking cases that are stamped ' match'.

F. Guffey

[Parashooter]

. . . Advantage to commercial, new, factory cases from R-P, the case head. Military case head thickness for surplus ammo has a case head thickness of .200". All of my R-P cases have a case head thickness of .260". . .
Guess it depends on where you measure -

http://i60.tinypic.com/53915v.jpg

[Kurt]

Well darn, there goes another into the basket of old wives tales....darn.

[Parashooter]

I wouldn't draw any real conclusions from the picture. After all, it's just three cases taken at random from my junk box. Other production lots might look (and measure) very different from those - or not. My main point is that sweeping generalizations about cartridge dimensions are often a sign of either inexperience or delusion.

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it - even if I have said it - unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-- The Buddha

"Trust, but verify"
-- The Gipper

[Kurt]

I wouldn't draw any real conclusions from the picture. After all, it's just three cases taken at random from my junk box. Other production lots might look (and measure) very different from those - or not. My main point is that sweeping generalizations about cartridge dimensions are often a sign of either inexperience or delusion.

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it - even if I have said it - unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-- The Buddha

"Trust, but verify"
-- The Gipper

I agree with you 100% and have found the same variances. Another one I get a kick out of is FC brass rumors. Somewhere someone ragged on .223 brass, next thing you know it was all FC brass bad. Unfounded in any I've dealt with. I have bought Winchester brass at one point and couldn't jam a primer in it, the holes were undersized badly. One batch, all the rest I've had were fine...it happens. Too often something happens and the wrong thing is blamed. Buddha knew his pooh.

Kurt

[fguffey]

Guess it depends on where you measure -

30/06 Springfield cases. There are those that talk about it and there are those that do it. Many RCBS primer pocket swages have been bent because the owner-user assumed 30/06 case heads had the same thickness. Then they cut the cases in half, then the crimp in the primer pocket became the least of their problems.

Who measures? Who talks about it?

I measure, I have to measure, because on occasions I use the RCBS primer pocket swage. Most of the time I use the RCBS case prep center with a Lyman military crimp remover. It is easier for me to measure the case head thickness without cutting them in half,

Another reloader/builder had the opportunity to purchase 100,000+ R_P test fired cases, he wanted to know if I had any interest in any part or all of the cases and he wanted to know if there was any information that could be gleaned from the cases because they were test cases. I said no, the only interest I would have would be for reloading purposes, forming and making test length gages.

And I added I will not live long enough to use the cases I already have. Then he asked about the small round dents in the case bodies, again the answer was no, I would measure the length of the case to determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face. My interest in case length from the shoulder to the case head would allow me to size case to fit my trashy old long chambers from the shoulder to the bolt face.

For me it is easier to allow someone to fire a case in a long chamber than it is for me to form cases, all I have to be able to do is measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. Then! measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the case head to determine the gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die.

For the 30/06 I have formed 280 Remington cases, the shoulder on the 280 Remington is ahead of the 30/06 by .051", then there is rational, as to the reason for using 280 Remington cases when 30/06 cases are available.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Parashooter, I assume everyone on this forum understands why you would cut a case in half to determine case head thickness, Mark Twain must have said something about that, I can only guess it would have gone something like "measure twice, cutting may not be necessary".

F. Guffey