ERMA .30 Cal M1 Carbine Value?

[SloopJohnB]

Does anyone have a ballpark idea as to the value of an Erma .30 cal M1 carbine in the 381x serial range? Seems to be in very good condition, but I don't know if it was ever heat treated or not.
I'd appreciate any informed guesses you may have.
Thanks,
john

[jimb]

Those were fairly good commercial carbines. I'd sat $450-$500 in very good condition.

[Tuna]

Erma's was located in Steelville Missouri. They made a military and a commercial sporter version. The company was acquired about 1965 by Steelville Manufacturing Co which continued to make the Erma's carbines. This company went out of business about 1967. Trigger housings were cast but the receivers seem to have been machined from steel blocks. I think USGI parts are interchangeable on these carbines. Quality should be very good. Worth more then a Universal or a Fed Ordnance carbine.

[SloopJohnB]

I've heard a few negative comments/cautions regarding the lack of heat treating of the receivers. Supposedly makes them prone to failure. Do you gentlemen have any info pertaining to that?
Thanks for your comments.

[PhillipM]

I've heard a few negative comments/cautions regarding the lack of heat treating of the receivers. Supposedly makes them prone to failure. Do you gentlemen have any info pertaining to that?
Thanks for your comments.

I'd be scared of it. http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_ermas2.html Scroll to the bottom.

[da gimp]

Thanks Phil.

[Msdibble]

Does anyone have a ballpark idea as to the value of an Erma .30 cal M1 carbine in the 381x serial range? Seems to be in very good condition, but I don't know if it was ever heat treated or not.
I'd appreciate any informed guesses you may have.
Thanks,
john

Hi -
I have an Erma's Firearms M1 Carbine....in the very last serial range (they only made 5,621 of them).
The gun is made up of USGI parts with exception of the receiver and the hammer. Even has a Bayonet Lug.
The stock is beautiful and the gun is dead-on accurate with never a FTF or FTE.

Receiver Hardness:
I did do the research on the gun and saw the comments about the receiver. I soon after took the stripped gun to a metallurgist and had it Rockwell "C" scale hardness tested.
Per my research, the USGI range was RC33-40. This receiver came in at RC18...soft.
I had my gunsmith tear it all the way down and had the metallurgist heat-treat it back to spec. When it was done, the RC measurement was RC39.
My gunsmith reassembled the gun and it is a very nice, solid .30 Carbine shooter. Fun little gun

[PhillipM]

I wonder how he knew what temperatures to use in the heat treating process without knowing exactly what type of steel it is. He must know his stuff.

[dave]

The carbine round is not exactly a power house, maybe the softer steel is adequate?

[PhillipM]

The carbine round is not exactly a power house, maybe the softer steel is adequate?

What is weak about 44,000 psi?

[Msdibble]

I wonder how he knew what temperatures to use in the heat treating process without knowing exactly what type of steel it is. He must know his stuff.

I let the metallurgist know that Erma's specs were 4130 steel for the receiver.
It turned out really nice.
The stock is beautiful on this gun - it eats any 30 carbine ammo I feed it. And, per M1carbinesinc, it is 100% USGI compatible.
Has sights by Rock-O-La, Inland trigger group, Saginaw guide rod, Inland bolt, Inland barrel.
Only things Erma's are the receiver (heat-treated to USGI Specs) and an Erma's "E" hammer.

[M1C]

I've heard a few negative comments/cautions regarding the lack of heat treating of the receivers. Supposedly makes them prone to failure. Do you gentlemen have any info pertaining to that?
Thanks for your comments.

Yes. The worst commercial receiver I've owned was an Erma. Terrible receiver. Soft metal. Slide grooves, bolt grooves were all easily buggered. They should've stuck with the .22. Only good thing was the GI parts on it. The best commercials I've owned have been a Fulton, Springfield Armory and 1st generation Universal. The Universal is an excellent piece with beautiful finish that looks 100% GI. But that only pertains to the 1st gen. The barrel is the weak link, being a soldered from demil'ed Carbine aft end (integral gas cylinder) with 1903 fore end. They sleeve the demil part with a turned down 1903 then solder it together. Had a little later version which came with the rectangular trigger group, but still GI style slide. It was ok, but the 1st gen is outstanding on the receiver.