Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works ,32 cal

[jim c 351]

Here are some pictures of my Iver Johnson 32 cal hammerless. Its serial number is 64,XXX and the number is preceded by the letter "D or P" on the left side of the frame. On the bottom of the grip is stamped,-PAT NOV, 17,08
I've owned the revolver for quite a few years, but only fired it a few times. As I recall it shot about a foot low and several inches to the side.
A recent article in the 2014 gun digest prompted me to remove it from the safe. The title of the article is "Yesterdays Pocket Pistols & Bedside Guns".
The article spoke highly of the Iver Johnson, even when compared to the S&W revolver.
Can anyone tell me the year it was made and any opinions and comments???
Thanks,
Jim C 351

[Tuna]

You have an IJ 1900. Made between 1900 and 1941. Don't know when yours was made but it sold for $1.19 in the 1904 Sears catalog. Blue book list it as $85 in 90% condition retail.

[jim c 351]

Tuna,
Thanks for commenting.
Hopefully someone will log on that can better pinpoint the date of manufacture.
Jim C

[emmagee1917]

From a quick check , if it is a 1900 , there was no letters before 1909 , an "E" from 1909-1917 , and a " B" from 1917 till 1941/42 . Could it be a "B" ?
Chris

[jim c 351]

From a quick check , if it is a 1900 , there was no letters before 1909 , an "E" from 1909-1917 , and a " B" from 1917 till 1941/42 . Could it be a "B" ?
Chris

Chris,
Yes, that is a possibility. If so, then only the top half of the "B" if visible. The stamping was too close the edge of the frame there fore the letter could be a D or a P or an R or a "B".
If we assume the letter is a "B" and the rest of the serial number is 64,788, then can you pin the date of manufacture any further??
Was "B" assigned only to 32 cal revolvers or was it also used for 38 cal guns ??
Thanks Chris.
PS, On the bottom of the grip is stamped PAT,NOV,17,08. PATS Pending.

[Tuna]

It seems from what I have read that after 1930, the .32 was then made on the large frame and was 6 shots.

[emmagee1917]

That was all I was able to find . I could not find a production breakdown or serial number list. There must be one because of a referance to a b-9,000 ish number that someone said was made in the 1919-1920 era ( can't find it again ) , but that's to far from yours to draw any guesses from.
Chris

[jim c 351]

Thanks to both of you for trying.
Jim C

[Ron James]

You have a Large Frame Safety Hammerless, based on what the last 3 numbers are in the serial number it was made in either 1916 or 1917. The Model 1900 was a different animal, a solid frame. Since Iver Johnson went to a stronger frame in 1909 your gun is safe with modern ammo but I would recommend against using .32 ACP . Yes, before someone goes crazy, since the .32 ACP has a small rim ( the ,32ACP is not rimless ) it will work in most . 32 S&W chambered revolvers. The Letter P was not used by Iver.

[Tuna]

The reference I have been using makes no mention of an 1909 model only the 1900. It does state that the U.S. Revolver Co. pistols made by IJ were made in both the medium and large frame sizes. But his revolver is marked IJ The only 1900 large frames that are listed are all in .22 and are target models only. Ron, can you tell us what reference you were able to find your information in? I would like to get it myself for future reference.

[jim c 351]

Ron, Tuna,
Thanks to both of you for responding.
Here is what I've learned from 2 other sources.
The Iver Johnson 5 shot ,32 cal, hammerless revolver pictured above was sold in 3 variations.
1st Model (1894-1896. Black powder gun.
2nd Model (1896-1907). Black powder gun.
3rd Model (1908-1941). Smokeless powder gun, My gun,--- which has 3 different letter prefexes.
The letter prefex found under the left grip are as follows.--(1909-1915, "A" prefex. ) (1915-1926, "G" prefex.) (1927-1941, "J" prefex.)
So, with this info, what's the problem. Well the problem is the letter prefex stamped on my gun does not resemble a "A" or a "G" or a "J".
If I got very drunk maybe I could imagine a "J", but it would take my imagination.
I don't think I'll ever know for sure.
Jim C

[PhillipM]

There is a book on them.

http://www.gunshowbooks.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/st_prod.html?p_prodid=GS37205

[Ron James]

I didn't pull this information from thin air, I went to the excellent reference book ( really , perhaps the only complete reference in existence on Iver Johnson revolvers ) authored by William ( Bill ) Goforth. ' IVER JOHNSON--ARMS AND CYLCLE WORKS FIREARMS 1871-1993 " The last book from this great man on H&R Revolvers has just been published, both available from Gunshow Books. jim c, the patent dates you posted as being on the butt of the gun, were used from 1914 until 1941, you have a Large Frame Hammerless Safety Model, regardless of what the letter prefix is under the left grip, it is a smokeless frame made after 1914.

[jim c 351]

Ron,
I don't question that my revolver is a smokeless frame and I don't question the patent dates indicating a 1914 to 1940 mfg date.
I do question the large frame idea. B. Goforth in a post on gun auction.com indicates that the 6 shot 32 is the large frame not my 5 shot.
My goal in life is to try and determine which one of the 3 variations apply to the gun pictured above. That's why the letter prefixes are important.
Thanks for replying.
Jim C

[Tuna]

Ron, Thank you for the information on the Goforth book. I shall look for it.

[jaie5070]

I have a .32 IJ that I got from my step father. It has such a stiff strigger pull that your lucky to hit anything if shooting it in DA mode.
john

[glindes]

I have an I J 5-shot break-open 32 S&W revolver that came from somewhere in the family... It is in ~95% condition, 6 inch barrel, blued finish, color case hardened trigger and hammer, one-piece unmarked wood grip. Serial number 59310 is clearly marked on bottom of trigger guard. Under the grip on the left side of frame it is marked G 59310. It' been kinda the "red-headed stepchild" of the safe....
Also have an H&R nickel, hammerless, 5-shot, break-open in 32 S&W revolver in mint condition that (according to Father) belonged to an Admiral FEY (Father spelled it out...F-E-Y). I'm not sure in which military the Admiral served... I google it and get some text in German or TINA FEY!!!!
Thanks of he I J letter prefix info. Geoff

[emmagee1917]

So it's a "J" from '27 to '41 and not a " B" ?
The sight I picked that up from sounded like they were good . Sorry about that.
Chris

[Ron James]

J was used in those years for the Small Frame Hammer model in 32 Center fire. Iver Johnson did not use the same prefix consecutively or necessary repetitively. During that time period Iver Johnson used at least 9 different alphabet letters as prefix's. It depended on the model and caliber, and yes there were times when the same prefix was used on more than one model. B prefix was used from 1909 until 1918 on the Small Frame Hammerless 32 S&W center fire .

[jim c 351]

Ron,
I've been away for the past few days and just now had a chance to read your post.
According to the info that I found and posted above, some of it by Goforth himself, a 5 shot 32 cal hammerless , like mine, would have an "A" prefex if made between 1909-1915.
Now you are saying that the same gun, made between 1909-1918 would have a "B" prefex. Are you saying the "A" prefex is incorrect or are you saying that IJ used both the "A" and the "B" prefex during the period between 1909 and 1918 ??? This is the first I've read of the "B" prefex. Did you learn of this from the Goforth book?? If so then you have solved the problem and my revolver was made between 1909 and 1918.
Thanks for your help.
Jim C

[Ron James]

Now, you are getting me confused, ( which is not hard to do). B Prefix was used in 1896 until 1902 and again in 1909 until 1918 on the Small Frame Hammerless .32 revolver. the A prefix was used in 1896 and 1897 and once again in 1909 until 1914 on the Small Frame Hammer .32. Small Frame Hammerless serial numbers begin , 1896 B0001 and end in 1902 at B100000 { estimated }, used again in 1909 at B0001 and ends in 1918 at B100,000 { estimated }. The Small Frame Hammer serial number A Prefix was used in 1896 starting at A00001 and ending in 1896 at A100000 { estimated }, and yet once again in in 1909 starting at A00001 until 1914 ending at A100.000 { estimated }. Apparently Iver Johnson used batch numbers and even that does not appear to be a consistent practice in their hundred years of production. Info from page 62 of Bill's book. This why when looking for a year questions arise such as , which way is the owl looking, coil or flat main spring and single or double post.:) Enough to make a sober man drink, or a drunk man sober.

[Ron James]

Well, don't know what happen to my response, if it doesn't show up in a day or so , I'll get my books out and redo it.

[jjrothWA]

Is there a reference for Harrington & Richardson top breaks??

Thanks for the above info, now know that my 1900 with the "owl" facing forward is a BP only. SN: 150XX