Why are Garand barrels softer than a lot of sporting rifles?

[kragnut]

I just recrowned and cut back a 1945 barrel that had a little bit of damage to the muzzle and it was almost embarrassingly easy with the Brownells hand tool. I've heard that 3000 - 4000 rounds is about the limit for most M1 barrels, and yet I hear stories about Remington 700 barrels that last twice that long....or more. Or is this just interwebs BS?

[Art]

The life of a standard military rifle barrel (chrome plated bores excluded) has been a nominal 5,000 rounds for a long, long time. There are big differences between military use and civilian use, for one thing rapid fire plays hell with rifle barrel life and all military rifles get more than their fair share of it even if only used in training. I have an M1 rifle I got several years ago with an as new Danish barrel that I assume is the equivalent of U.S. barrels. It measured under "0" on a n M.W. guage when I got it. I figure I have somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 rounds through it and it still measures "0" but it's been babied and almost no rapid fire, in fact it's shot a lot as a single loader. 10,000 rounds is an awful lot of ammo through any centerfire rifle and I wonder how many of those rifles are owned by people who have actually kept a log book. Caliber matters too. A Remington 700 barrel will wear very much differently with .308 ammunition than, say, .22-250 ammunition so their are a lot of variables there too.

Rifle barrel steel has to be more elastic and flexible than a lot of folks realize. A hard barrel is more likely to be a brittle barrel.

[Herschel]

In the early 1960's I shot on a USAR rifle team. I was around many shooters and army armorers. They kept books on the M1 Rifles so knew exactly how many rounds were put through them. I am talking about National Match Grade M1 Rifles. As I recall they said rifles would retain enough accuracy for match shooting until they reached 5,000 rounds then accuracy would begin to taper off. These rifles were used in firing the National Match Course (10 rounds in 10 minutes standing, 10 rounds in 50 seconds sitting, 10 rounds in 60 seconds prone and 20 rounds in 20 minutes prone). The army teams had special rifles for the Infantry Trophy Match as it was fired with as many rounds as could be fired in 60 seconds. Good shooters could get off 24 aimed shots in 60 seconds in prone. This was hard on the barrels. These barrels were chambered in .30 cal. Those chambered in 7.62 NATO may have had a different accuracy life.

[barretcreek]

A friend was an armorer and he was explaining timing a barrel. If it's not right on, the shoulder is peened to time it. A really hard barrel wouldn't take to that.

[psteinmayer]

One also has to take into account that GIs (especially in training) will clean their rifles daily... and with a steel cleaning rod to boot. A hunting rifle would be much better cared for, using brass or aluminum, or even composite cleaning rods. Steel cleaning rods and excessive use will eventually cause excessive wear to the muzzle.

[soli]

Hershel,did you ever shoot any matches with a Doc Wesson.lived in Lakeland Fl.?

[UUURah]

Some of us who have more than one Garand, Ok, more than a dozen let's say, rarely shoot one thousands of times when there are others to shoot.

My best shooter, an H&R, still hasn't been shot 500 times by me. There is always one other that needs to be "test fired".

Ahhhh, the joys of being a Garand collector.

[Art]

Some of us who have more than one Garand, Ok, more than a dozen let's say, rarely shoot one thousands of times when there are others to shoot.

My best shooter, an H&R, still hasn't been shot 500 times by me. There is always one other that needs to be "test fired".

Ahhhh, the joys of being a Garand collector.

Correct. I regularly rotate through my milsurps. I have some that I've had for many years that probably don't have 500 rounds through them. The M1 I mentioned probably has more ammo fired through it since I've had it than any other and by a good margin. My three '03s combined probably don't have 1,000 rounds through them and I started accumulating them in the 1990s.

[Rick B]

I just recrowned and cut back a 1945 barrel that had a little bit of damage to the muzzle and it was almost embarrassingly easy with the Brownells hand tool. I've heard that 3000 - 4000 rounds is about the limit for most M1 barrels, and yet I hear stories about Remington 700 barrels that last twice that long....or more. Or is this just interwebs BS?


Absolutely incorrect. I thought that it was more like 5,000 to 10,000 to drop one TE measurement.

[Maury Krupp]

The 4-5000 round "limit" for button-rifled barrels is usually framed in terms of 600yd accuracy. It applies to most all barrels used for XTC shooting including those used on Match Rifles. Cut-rifled usually last several thousand more.

I've had numerous barrels that wouldn't shoot at 600 any more shoot just fine at 200 or less. My last Barnett was still capable of shooting a high X clean (>2MOA) on the 200yd MR-52 at 10,000 rounds of XTC shooting.

The rule of thumb is roughly 1,000 rounds per TE mark; so 5,000 = TE-5 = shot out for 600yd. But there are three things to remember about the TE gauge:

-True throat erosion is really a relative measurement - some barrels will start at 1 or 2 on the gauge

-TE doesn't mean dick at short range - My first-ever M1 throats 10+ and will still hold the SR black at 200yd and clean the SR-1 at 100

-The TE-5 standard was just the Army's quick-and-dirty way of deciding to re-barrel. Some barrels might go longer but the Army couldn't test fire every barrel at 600yd to find out

Barrels and the steel they're made of are fickle. The only true way to know if any barrel is shot out is to shoot it.

Maury

[Herschel]

solli, check your private messages.

[jcj54]

As an M1 armorer I can tell you a new GI or aftermarket barrel should throat at 1.75. That is why the original GI TE gauge has a dot there. GI barrels were discarded after reaching 5 on the TE gauge only by the Rifle Team armorers. This equals about 5000 rounds. In service use they were used until they hit 9 or 10 on the TE gauge. Sporting arms barrel steel us no harder than that of GI barrels. Bolt gun shooters do not fire nearly as many rounds per year as those shooting service rifle matches.

[UUURah]

I have to disagree and agree with your posting.

I have an Italian barrel that throats a "1". Right now I am working on one of my American Legion Garands that shows 1.75, and I KNOW it's been fired, I have fired it myself some years ago. It has also been subjected to an unknown quantity of blanks, which tears them up.

Bout 8-10 yrs ago my Gun Club sold off their Garand loaners and went to AR-15's. They held one back because they knew it was shot out. They offered it to me for $300. I did have a Korean Era barrel that was close to the build date. Worked out good for them and me.

Just for fun I checked the old barrel. It was a 9. Now it didn't get to 9 overnight, it had to gradually get there. Someone was borrowing it and using it for years. Granted they were probably novice shooters but they still shot and enjoyed it. They must have hit some 10's.

What I'm getting at is this topic is subjective. It can be interpreted many ways.