New find...

[Plain Old Dave]

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab168/plain-old-dave/DSC08791_zpsacd66672.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab168/plain-old-dave/DSC08790_zps2dc75c96.jpg



http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab168/plain-old-dave/DSC08788_zpsbcd27885.jpg

Opinions, please. Will the M2 stock hold up, or do I need different wood to shoot this rifle at all?

[chuckindenver]

assuming this is a 30-06 id say, dont shoot a high power in the .22 stock, it will brake it.

[Plain Old Dave]

Not instigating, honestly curious. Is the 22 stock made out of cheaper wood? Model 70s don't have recoil bolts and don't break...

[chuckindenver]

i wouldnt shoot it in a 22 stock...thats just me..
i have a 30-06 set in a 22 stock, i glass bedded it..so far it hasnt cracked.

[Herschel]

Not cheaper wood. I suppose it is the action design. They added the crossbolts after experience with the early 1903 rifles c racking stocks proved they needed them. Some 03A3 rifles used crosspins.

[Plain Old Dave]

All right, if I can't shoot it to any considerable degree with this stock, I reckon I need a stock I can shoot it with. If somebody has one they don't want a war pension for, PM me. Open to trades, too.

[Jan'42]

Northridge is selling some generic WW2 contract stocks at a not TOO exorbitant price (though the Keystone and Mattel C's are a touch exxy, though brand spanking new!)

[musketshooter]

there is nothing wrong with shooting it if the stock is glass bedded and the correct length rear stock busing is installed.

[chuckindenver]

mattel? how bout milton bradly..they made scant grips, not aware of C stocks. since they made 1917 and P14 stocks they had the blanks for those stocks on hand, and the scant grip was the ticket. not enough wood to do a C.

[Jan'42]

Yes, MB - I knew a toy manufacturer anyways :)

[Plain Old Dave]

Update: Finally got home and shot the piece Saturday. All went well, and I see no sign of any form of stock cracking. Based on how much jacket fouling I am getting out of the bore and the overall even condition of all the parts (i.e. bolt looks about as worn as reciever, which looks as weathered as the Lyman 48 [reads to 125] and the front sight), this rifle has been shot a LOT in this stock. Beautiful bore, and as an added bonus I got a D. W. King "Reflector" front sight. A good friend of mine whose judgement I trust said, "Whoever did that rifle knew what they were doing."

[Plain Old Dave]

Another discovery. I think this piece has a star gaged barrel. There's a "B/1961" at 12:00 on the barrel just forward of where the issue rear sight would be, about centered between the rear sight and lower band. I thought there was just a nick at about 6:00 on the crown, but that 'nick' is right where the star should be and apparently some were poorly struck.

[Southron]

I don't see any reason why a M1922 stock wouldn't work IF the action and barrel are properly bedded.

I am sure Springfield did not pick out any "weak" wood from which to make their M1922 stocks. Walnut is Walnut.

[chuckindenver]

1922 stocks have no recoil cross bolts,. shooting a high power rifle in them will ruin them.

[Plain Old Dave]

Well, neither do Winchester Model 70, Remington 700, Ruger 77, or almost any other sporting rifle stock. This rifle has been in this stock for a long time and has no evidence of any sort of damage. My gunsmith looked it over and concurred with my initial estimation that this one is properly bedded and should do fine.

[John Beard]

Plain Old Dave,

Seasons' Greetings!

I would be grateful if you would PM me the serial number and barrel date of your rifle. Thanks!

And Happy New Year!

J.B.

[chuckindenver]

actually,, Remington 700s , Winchester model 70s, do, have a recoil pin through the front lug...Ruger77s wont do to the angled screw they have..
enjoy your rifle.

[Darreld Walton]

I've been shooting a .30-06 in a .22 stock for quite awhile. Dave in Alaska sent it down to me perhaps ten years ago. I did put a dab of 'glass on the recoil lug, and at the back and that's it. It has held up amazingly well! But hey, I'm a screwy old fart, and it wouldn't be the first time I've "tickled the dragon's tail".......

[Plain Old Dave]

It DOES have recoil bushings in both front and rear action fastener holes, and it occurs to me this action is more or less pillar bedded.

[Kurt]

Darreld, I saw a 1903 Springfield in a M22 stock at the Lumen Christi gun show a couple years ago. It was for sale by the guy I think got it from the guy in Nebesna that passed away. My understanding is the guy had a connex full of gun parts and pieces. Anyway, the stock was split at the tang. I don't know if it had any bedding, kind of doubt it. He also had the M22 bolt that probably came with that stock originally and I bought that. He had no idea where the rest of the gun was. Two nice guns that were bred and got mongrels in the litter. Such as it was back in the day.

Kurt

[John Beard]

Plain Old Dave,

Seasons' Greetings!

Your PM mailbox is full. My reply to your inquiry awaits clearance of space.

Happy New Year!

J.B.

[Plain Old Dave]

Space is available.

[tbryan]

I have one identical to that, right down to the Lyman 48 I found the 1922 stock and put it on an action with a crit. bbl. I have been shooting it for three years now with no problems. I suppose it could crack tomorrow, but it looks so neat and shoots very well.

[Plain Old Dave]

I have more, but it won't let me attach more than 5 pics per post.

[Plain Old Dave]

081439 REPLACEMENT FOR 598xxx

I am advised this is a "Special Target Rifle", an NM 1903 that served as an NM Rifle, but sold off afterwards. So, one other VERY plausible story thus far is this was shot through the 1940 season and sold by DCM at the DCM shed at the 1940 National Matches, or at some other point. The 1940 Matches (8/18-9/7/1940) were the last ones before WW2, as well as the last one where the M1 wasn't really competitive. The 1939 Matches were apparently 8/20/39-9/9/39, so this rifle couldn't reasonably be expected to have been assembled AND fitted AND shipped to Ohio in a week.

In 1953, the next National Matches, the 03 wasn't even a Service Rifle and the process that led to the M14 and eventually the M16 was underway. So, this "obsolete" rifle was fitted with the King Reflector sight and M2 stock she now wears and began a second career as an alternative to the Model 70 that was on back order after the war or unavailable due to the National Emergency at some point after September 1940.


This is my favorite part of this gun collecting hobby. See, to me a gun isn't a 'weapon.' It's a story, sometimes one you have to pull out of her, but a compelling one just the same. One has to wonder if the 1940 National Match scorecards had rifle serial numbers on them....

[John Beard]

081439 is the transaction date, which is 14 August 1939. If your rifle was issued as a replacement for S/N 598xxx, then it was disposed of by the government on that date and would not have been issued as a team rifle for the 1939 or 1940 National Matches. S/N 598xxx was most assuredly a privately-owned rifle at that time, something apparently happened to it (perhaps it blew up), and your rifle was issued to the owner as a replacement for it. The transaction may well have occurred in the preliminaries leading up to the 1939 National Matches. Your rifle could certainly have been used in the 1939 and 1940 National Matches, but most likely would have been used by a private shooter, not a military shooting team.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[Plain Old Dave]

Like my Papaw would have said, the mud's getting clearer. It occurred to me that even during the Depression that 4 years was a while for a barrel to sit around, and a 1 for 1 replacement for a LN 03 at the DCM shed the Monday before the 1939 Nationals to give a shooter a few days to work up zeroes makes a lot of sense. That and the significantly lower number of 1940 NM rifles vice 1939s didn't make the 1940 math make sense, either. No Hatcher Hole lends more circumstantial evidence to the "Xxx State Rifle Team" or "X and Y Rod and Gun Club" theory, too. Staying in private hands means no military rework, too.

In that era, would State National Guard teams be state funded or Federally funded or did it vary by State? Now, there's all sorts of Guardsmen; Technicians (State employees), AGRs (Federal), and Traditional Guardsmen (State unless recalled to Title 10 orders and Federalized)

[Rick the Librarian]

John, didn't the DCM have a program, where a previous buyer could turn in a LN receiver and receive a high numbered one in return? Or was that later on?

[John Beard]

John, didn't the DCM have a program, where a previous buyer could turn in a LN receiver and receive a high numbered one in return? Or was that later on?

I think that was later on, perhaps in the 1950's.

J.B.

[Plain Old Dave]

Would DCM have advertised this in the Rifleman? UT Knoxville has a pretty complete collection of back issues.

[Cosine26]

The receiver exchange was a post WWII program. I turned in two of them. One had to submit a request listing the SN of the LN/SHT receiver to Commanding General , U.S. Army Weapons Command, Attn: AMSWE-SMD, Rock island Arsenal Rock Island Illinois. The army would then process a Purchase order for Ordnance Supplies ORDBC Form 4221, for the receiver being processed. You would then receive a letter notifying you to return the old receiver (by Serial Number) with all parts removed to CO Rock Island Arsenal.
Upon receipt of the old receiver, Form 4421 would be forwarded to you with a request for payment. There was a dire warning that if the old receiver was not received within 30 days, the order would be cancelled.
The stock number of the first replacement receiver was 1005-3097326-B003, Receiver, 1903 $7.90 plus packing, handling and transportation cost of $1.52 for a total of $9.42.
The entire process took from 10/27 to 12/15/1964 .
* The first receiver was a NS steel receiver in the 1.4M range without the Hatcher hole. It had a dark gray parkerized finish. Since this was without a Hatcher Hole, I would guess that it had never been assembled into a rifle.
*The second receiver was a DHT in the SN range of 962xxx (I do not remember the whole number)- stock number 1005-3097326 50777371. This was obviously a used receiver.

I suppose that the SN of the old receiver was need to determine if the rifle was stolen. I believe that the old receiver was destroyed.
I never saw this advertised in the RIFLEMAN. My information came from the various DCM price lists.
Condition of the turn in was of no importance. The two that I turned in were butchered in an attempt to mount a telescope mount. One had a hole the size of a pencil that went all the way through the receiver as a result of drilling several holes.
When the supply of M1903 receivers was exhausted, a M1903A3 barreled action was offered.(This was announced in the RIFLEMAN)

[Rick the Librarian]

Yes, I think you guys were right, probably post-war. I think they were still doing it at least through ca. 1970 or so.

[Bob in WA]

Some time in the early 1970's I turn in a LN receiver with a broken side rail and received a new Smith Corona striped 1903A3 barreled receiver, with a note stating they were out of 1903 receivers.

[da gimp]

this is/was a neat thread, thank you guys.

[Plain Old Dave]

Yes, it is. I am going to get the SRS letter, and request data on a Krag I have had for decades.

[Cosine26]

I believe that there was a pre WWII receiver exchange program, but I an not familiar with the details so I shall leave that to someone more knowledgeable than I.