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View Full Version : The good, the bad, and the ugly of my 1913 RIA



Jan'42
05-19-2014, 03:32
Finally an analysis of my essentially original 1913 RIA M1903 after I disassembled to take stock of the situation.

The GOOD:

100% correct 1913 barrelled action. Barrel is 3-13 RIA dated, marked also underneath R 22 P (repair in 1922?)

Rear sight has the platinum wire line insert. Knobs are dished, early.

Blue about 70% original, or more. Small downside

Stock is an original single stock bolt CN 1913 cartouched S. Has the small s in the cutoff area, and the larger S on the foreend tip. More on the stock soon.

Handguard is as far as I can tell one of the early no sight groove modified for sight groove handguards, with the "steeper" hump section that is sometimes encountered. Simply marked with a J in the handguard channel.

upper band is non-H marked

Mid band swivel is the split type

Buttplate is fine checker

Sling is 1913 dated. Seen better, own better, but it MAY be original to the rifle.

Bolt stop extant (never removed as far as I can tell)

BAD:
Some cold blue on the barrelled action and triggerguard. I have degreased it and applied a thin coat of rust blue solution, which does the dual purpose of removing the offensive cold blue and LIGHTLY recolours the metal (I am not going to fully reblue it - there is perhaps already 70% original left anyway)

Barrel is throat worn up to about 6 inches. I wasn't going to shoot it anyway, but the barrel is toast. Past that throat erosion, it's nice :)

UGLY:

Handguard usual crack back to almost the mid band. I have glue stabilised it, and it is a TIZGHT juncture crack, so not visible now unless I told you. Was polished a touch (now rectified)

Stock had been cracked through the triggerguard on the left side up through to the fingergrooves - looks like bayonet parry crack or similar. That is totally invisible after repair. Had been polished (rectified)

P on wrist had been "embellished" by prior owner. Not sure where to go with it, but my stock corrections have partially rectified it. The CN 1913 was also slightly retouched, but my stock restoration efforts raised the reforced line a little, making them look correct again.

1907 RIA M1905 bayonet: ground in the pommel area, reblued. M1917 scabbard. Repro IMA grip panels. Will take some effort rectifying! Will use as gunshow trade fodder.

The Downright sordidly disgusting:

Someone took a WW2 Rem bolt. heat straightened it, reprofiled the handle slightly on top and sides. Cold blued the evidence. Will have hot reblued or polished and trade it at Gunshow as a sporter bolt

Someone took a WW2 03A3 Rem cocking piece and threw it in a lathe and tried turning it to look like an early cocking piece. FAILED.

I will photograph it all later, especially the dudded bolt. The rest is FINE, and I have 2 replacement bolts on the way. I am not intending shooting it, so bore is meaningless, as is stock repair - so long as it is essentially original is all that counts to me! Finding anything near original M1903's Down under is VERY difficult at the best of times we usually only have poor condition rebuilt for the Việt Nam Cộng Hòa (South Viet Nam) and imported here ex-Viet Nam in the 1980's.

I initially paid $1800 for the rifle, with the bayonet and sling. The seller is a refurbisher and did highlight to me ONLY embellishment of the cartouches. After I pointed out the rest of the issues, we agreed on the lot for $600, him refunding me (money received)

Rick the Librarian
05-19-2014, 04:59
Keep in mind that many M1905 bayonets were issued or used with M1917 scabbards. Look forward to pictures.

Jan'42
05-19-2014, 05:56
I know Rick - I have kept the scabbard and put it on another RIA 1907 M1905. I bought that from Frank Pagano (kheSanh on eBay), and it had been POORLY stored - a MINT bayonet otherwise, but water got under a poorly applied cosmolene protection layer. Boogered it in spots, but it is otherwise incredibly new! I did take off the MINT grips and used them on another bayonet in need, and put on a set of boned grips on this one. WAS such a gorgeous bayonet - shame it was poorly stored!

I have a WW2 refurb 1909 SA as well - full length still - that was parkerised completely and phenolic grips added. The bayonet was mint BEFORE they refurbed it, and it is mint NOW, just now 1909 spec :) Looks great with the Rem 03.

Simply, the M1903 system prior to WW2 are simply the most beautiful rifles on Earth. My soft spot is like John Beard - Rock Island :) I have owned quite a few RIA's now, including that elusive 1919 RIA finished by SA with the Avis 2-19 barrel that I told John about YEARS ago. I like SA, but RIA is just something special IMHO - just a little nicer than the Armory product, aand of course, NOTHING beats a pre-WW1 rifle for quality, looks and style. I have been a Mauser and Lee Enfield nut for years too, but I ALWAYS find myself coming back to M1903's.

joem
05-19-2014, 06:49
Must have been a up right guy to return some money to you. Congrats!

Rick the Librarian
05-19-2014, 08:11
You don't have to tell me about LN M1903s, as I'm sure you know! IMHO, the best-looking military rifles.

http://www.fototime.com/BE565A5A577D0C8/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/A5FB267DBDB82ED/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/A77BE4A44D10D49/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/76A0B7034BA064E/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/F0B7A62EB94A285/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/7D91042E3280528/standard.jpg

John Beard
05-19-2014, 09:17
The R 22 P marking under the barrel is the steel lot code and proof mark.

The rear sight horizontal platinum line insert is questionable. I've seen vertical inserts, but do not recall seeing horizontal inserts.

I'm suspicious that your rifle's stock may not be original to your rifle.

I'm not convinced that your handguard was modified from an earlier rifle. Perhaps it was. Perhaps it wasn't.

Condolences on the bolt. Your earlier suspicions were correct. I noted the stamped extractor collar, but assumed the collar had been replaced. I couldn't imagine someone straightening a Remington bolt handle. I must adjust my thinking. Fakers are more nefarious than I gave them credit.

Hope this helps. Thanks for the report!

J.B.

Emri
05-20-2014, 07:08
The rear sight horizontal platinum line insert is questionable. I've seen vertical inserts, but do not recall seeing horizontal inserts.

Someone probably filled in the horizontal line on a later sight.

Jan'42
05-20-2014, 03:36
It get's worse as I look further obviously.

Still, not entirely sure $600 at least is not worth it.

What makes you believe the stock and handguard are not original John?

Jan'42
05-20-2014, 03:38
i rechecked the rear sight. It is NOT a platinum insert - the horizontal line is just bright metal, no insert. Plain jane sight.

John Beard
05-20-2014, 09:49
What makes you believe the stock and handguard are not original John?

Your description and the earlier photos you posted are not entirely consistent with a 1913 RIA stock. I did not suggest that the handguard was not original.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

Jan'42
05-21-2014, 12:40
Could you explain the incosistency of the stock please JB and I will cross check.

Thanks, appreciate the assistance.