New Krag owner, need some advice.

[Smokechaser]

Hello Krag folks, I have been wanting a 30-40 Krag for a very long time now, and I just purchased one this evening for $60.00! It's not pretty by any means, and it's missing the safety, cut off and the magazine follower spring, but the bore looks awesome, and the action is tight. According to the serial #, this rifle appears to have been produced in 1899. It is a carbine length rifle set in a sporterized stock with the monte carol cheek piece. I do not like this stock at all and I want to restore it back to a military style stock with a barrel band. I see that the safety and spring parts I need are reasonably available, but are there any decent stocks out there? Any good advice or questions on this restoration would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[psteinmayer]

Hi, and welcome to the wonderful world of Krags!

A few questions: Does the receiver say Model 1899? If it says Model 1898, what is the serial number? What type of front sight is on the gun? Where I'm going with this is that if it's sporterized, it may also be a cutoff barrel. A rifle barrel should be 30 inches and a carbine should be exactly 22 inches, as measured from the muzzle to the closed bolt face. The front sight should be the same whether it's a rifle or carbine, and the base should be dovetailed and brazed. If it's banded, then the barrel is most likely cut. Pictures would help here...

All that notwithstanding, military stocks are available. Please note, if it is a cutoff barrel, it will never hold the same value as a true carbine, whether it's restored to military condition or not. Check EBay or Gunbroker, as original stocks do become available from time to time. Replacement stocks are also available from different companies also, but beware of some of them.

[dave]

He said it was a "carbine length rifle" and said it "appears" to be made in 1899 by serial number.

Carbine stocks are hard to come by and are very expensive, rifle stocks not so much. But there are repros out there altho I have heard good and bad about them.

[Smokechaser]

It was late last night and I was excited about this Krag, I should have included more information. The receiver is stamped model 1898, The serial # is 122181, the barrel length is exactly 22" to the bolt face, and the front sight is not a banded sight, it is dovetailed & brazed. The rear sight is a 1901. I'll post some pictures this evening even though I'll be embarrassed to do so, this gun is not pretty but it's exactly what I was looking for. I love a diamond in the rough. This rifle has sentimental value to me because my dad had one when he was a kid growing up in North Dakota in the 40's & 50's, and I've always wanted one because of that. Thanks for the replies so far.

[madsenshooter]

It's within the serial # range that it might have been a model 1898 carbine.

[Smokechaser]

Would an 1898 carbine have the 1901 rear sight?

[madsenshooter]

Not originally, it would have had an 1896 carbine sight at the time made. But if upgraded and put in a 1899 carbine stock, as many of them were, then other carbine sights are possible.

[psteinmayer]

If the rear sight is a 1901, does it have the "C" on it denoting a carbine sight? It sounds like you may have the real deal, although it would need to have the correct stock, handguard etc.

[Smokechaser]

Yes, the rear sight does have a "C" stamped on the side.

[sdkrag]

It sounds as if the rifle falls within the accepted carbine serial # range. I guess I would look for a carbine stock for the thing. At 60.00 you could afford to shop around for a stock and even if you have to give a few bucks for it and the band you will still be in good shape. Unless there is an SRS hit you can't prove it's an original but you have all the makings.

[Smokechaser]

That's my plan, to locate a decent used carbine stock or an aftermarket one and make the gun look correct. I installed a new CMP stock on a Garand not too long ago which turned out beautiful, so I'm looking forward to doing this Krag too. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can locate a new stock & handguard set? Thanks.

[psteinmayer]

S&S has replacement stocks. Boyds also has Krag stocks, but be very careful with Boyds... I have heard that the stock requires a great deal of carving and fitting to make it correct. Check out the following links for a couple stock companies:

http://www.dunlap-woodcrafts.com/MilitaryStocks.php#23
http://www.ssfirearms.com/products.asp?cat=28&filter=krag
http://gunstockduplicating.com/index.html

Also keep an eye on EBay because they do pop up from time to time.

Barrel bands and other bits and pieces can be purchased from Joe DeChristopher at this site: http://www.tradenet.net/joede/

Good Luck with the restoration... It should be awesome if done right!

[Smokechaser]

psteinmayer, thanks for the great information and your time to post it. I'm on the hunt for all the parts right now!

[madsenshooter]

You'd want an 1899 carbine stock, going back to the 1896 short stock it was originally issued with would require you to get an 1896 carbine sight, and they're expensive.

[Dick Hosmer]

Hate to be picky, but the short stock situation is worse than that, cause it is only an 1896 type, remember the bolt notch - finding a proper original M1898 short stock is out of the question - so, go with the 1899 for sure.

[Smokechaser]

Thanks for that good info! Since I have the carbine 1901 rear sight, would I need the upper handguard that has the "hump" ?

[jon_norstog]

Smoke,

Don't be 'fraid to spend a little money. Most 1898 "carbines" are fake. Yours wasn't even trying to call itself a carbine, which makes me think it could be the real thing. How's that for cowboy logic?

Good luck!

jn

[JOHN42768]

Smokechaser, Your serial number doesn't make a hit in the SRS listings. At $60.00 it would be awfully hard to go wrong. John

[Smokechaser]

JN, cowboy logic works for me! I was able to remove the rear sight this evening after using a little kroil oil. I don't think it's been off the barrel in 100 years! The windage and elevation adjustments were quite frozen in place, but I was able to get them moving again. I ran a patch through the bore and it glided through like silk, except for a very small section about an inch from the muzzle. There seems to be a dark area almost directly beneath the front sight post. I might be able to polish it smooth, we'll see. So John, what does it mean a rifle doesn't have a SRS listing? make

[madsenshooter]

SRS is Springfield Research Service. They compiled a list of a variety of US martial arms that research found mention of the serial #s of. Hope you don't have one of the things I had that messed up a barrel for about an inch behind the muzzle. At some time mine had a mud dauber's nest in the end and it was there long enough to draw considerable moisture. I'll try to shoot it first, but have a reamer to counter bore the barrel if it won't shoot well. Might be an opportunity to post about the effect of counter boring.

[Smokechaser]

Man there's a lot to this! I've spent half the day so far doing research about correct stocks, forearms & rear sights, constabulary carbines, and on and on... These Krags have a lot of history. I wish they could talk.

[Rick the Librarian]

One reason I like Krags (and I've brought this up before) is that in the 10 or so years they were a first-line rifle, they saw a LOT of service! Spanish-American War, "Boxer" Rebellion, Philippine Insurrection and various Latin-American interventions, to name but a few.

[psteinmayer]

Not to mention rear echelon duty in the Great War (WW1).

[70ish]

Thanks for that good info! Since I have the carbine 1901 rear sight, would I need the upper handguard that has the "hump" ?
Yes.

[Smokechaser]

Thanks 70ish, I thought so. Does anyone have any idea how to disassemble that 1901 rear sight? I have it submerged in a tuna can of Kroil right now to loosen things up. I want to break it down to clean and re-blue it, but how it comes apart is kind of a mystery.

[Mark Daiute]

My .02, just do enough work on the rear sight to make it functional.

[psteinmayer]

+1 on Mark's suggestion. I wouldn't re-blue anything. Better to make the sight functional, but keep it original.

[Smokechaser]

Another reason I wanted to disassemble the 1901 rear sight was to tweak the spring that holds tension on the elevation bar, but the closer I look I don't see any way to break it down without possibly damaging it. I'll just leave it alone and be happy because it will function fine like it is.

[Smokechaser]

I've seen some barrel bands with sling swivels, and some without. Which one is appropriate for a carbine?

[sdkrag]

No swivels on a carbine. Carried on a shoulder strap attached to the sling bar on the 96 and early 98 short stock carbines. Long stock 98 and 99's were carried free and just uses a scabbard.

[Smokechaser]

Ok, thanks sdkrag. What is the difference in length between a short stock and a long stock?

[Dick Hosmer]

The short stock is 30" long, and nearly all of them had the bar and ring. The long stock is 32" and never (despite one phony example now up on Gunbroker) had the ring and bar. The 2" difference is in the grasping groove area, meaning that the long stock cannot be shortened to mimic the scarcer short one. The short stock ALWAYS used the humped band (as opposed to a humped handguard) and the only correct rear sight for use with it is the M1896C, which is rare on the loose (and has been faked). Krags are fairly "complicated" as regards sights and handguards - it is easy for the novice to be confused and get into trouble.

[Smokechaser]

Thanks Dick, you are a wealth of information.

[Smokechaser]

27368
27369
27370
Experimenting with trying to attach a few pictures of my Krag sporter project. I have been letting the rear sight soak in penetrant oil for over a week, was finally able to get the slide bar to move this evening. You can clearly see where it has been stuck for a long time! The action fits very poorly in the stock. I was able to improve it a little, but it will definitely need to be bedded.

[madsenshooter]

I was just wondering if you all saw the 98 carbine sold as parts on ebay. Brought the seller a total of $510.36

[Smokechaser]

It's amazing what things will sell for on eBay sometimes!

[Dick Hosmer]

I was just wondering if you all saw the 98 carbine sold as parts on ebay. Brought the seller a total of $510.36

I've been away from eBay for awhile, so far as gun parts are concerned. Did he sell the receiver too? If so, eBay dropped the ball. I'm assuming this was a restocked one with a common rear sight? Still, the guy would have been much better off on GB. Sometimes you can get a lot more for the parts, or so I've always been told.

[madsenshooter]

Yes, receiver and barrel went together, unlawful and against ebay rules, but I see it often anymore. It had a 99 stock, a 1902 carbine rear sight.

[Dick Hosmer]

Was that the one that appeared (from another poster) to have been through a flood?

[Smokechaser]

There is another barrel with receiver on eBay right now. It looks like crap, & someone drilled holes in it probably to mount a scope.

[butlersrangers]

The Krag carbine, Madsenshooter mentioned, that recently was broken-down and sold for parts on ebay, belonged to someone in Virginia. He described it as an "1899 or possibly 1898 carbine". I am guessing that the receiver was so corroded that maybe the date and serial number could not be read. The badly cracked and water damaged stock was an 1899 'long fore-arm' type. I posted a picture of the broken, corroded and badly worn or filed 1902 carbine sight on the KCA forum ('flood sight').

[madsenshooter]

Actually, it was readable, 1898, serial was 126???, IRC. I already took it out of my watch list or I'd look again, but I looked it up in Poyer once and it was in 98 carbine range. I really hated seeing 1 of 5000 reduced to parts, especially so since I don't have one!

[butlersrangers]

Thanks, Madsenshooter. That carbine certainly encountered catastrophe!

[psteinmayer]

It's a shame!