whats this old Hawkens works

[p246]

A Widow called to ask me if I'd be interested in buying her deceased husbands wall hanger. She described it and I told her it was older than what I collect. She asked for help identifying it and setting a value. Glad to so went for a look. Its an Old Hawkens 50 Cal or bigger. Bore is dark but has deep rifling. No bluing left but stock is fine, no patch box. Double set trigger works. Ramrod not original, broke anyway. Pictures to follow, can you smoke pole shooters confirm its a Hawkens. Give me an opinion on what she should ask as I have no idea on price.

[p246]

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/p246/IMG_20140616_111932.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/p246/media/IMG_20140616_111932.jpg.html)

[p246]

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/p246/IMG_20140616_112040.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/p246/media/IMG_20140616_112040.jpg.html)

[p246]

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/p246/IMG_20140616_112051.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/p246/media/IMG_20140616_112051.jpg.html)

[p246]

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/p246/IMG_20140616_112150.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/p246/media/IMG_20140616_112150.jpg.html)

[p246]

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/p246/IMG_20140616_112002.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/p246/media/IMG_20140616_112002.jpg.html)

[p246]

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/p246/IMG_20140616_112205.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/p246/media/IMG_20140616_112205.jpg.html)

[p246]

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/p246/IMG_20140616_112115.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/p246/media/IMG_20140616_112115.jpg.html)

[p246]

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/p246/IMG_20140616_111943.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/p246/media/IMG_20140616_111943.jpg.html)

[JBinIll]

I think you have a mid-west half stock rifle unless it is clearly marked otherwise.It is a little bit crude and slender compared to a real Hawken manufactured rifle.

How long is the barrel?Caliber?

[p246]

Barrel is 45 inches long. Total length at longest point is 61 1/4 inches. Guessing with calipers I estimate the bore to be 50 to 54 calibers. It appears to be counter bored around 1/4 inch. There is some scroll engraving on the hammer and lock plate but its so faint I can't get it to show up.

[p246]

That would explain the lack of a patch box. Not sure all Hawkens had them but the few I've seen did.

[p246]

It has very basic buckhorn sights if that helps. No adjustment.

[JBinIll]

There are just a whole lot of things missing or wrong common to Hawken half stock percussion rifles.Drum and nipple instead of a snail breech,escutcheon on the lock screw,cheekpiece is wrong,stock is rather slender for a Hawken,awfully long barrel.Biggest thing is it doesn't say Hawken St.Louis on the barrel.The fore end cap looks awfully crude.In a way I'd almost suspect this might have been a full stock percussion rifle at an earlier date with that long of a barrel.

[JBinIll]

The lock panel on the screw side is awfully crude compared to a Hawken.I'd guess it was the product of some country smith.

[p246]

Thanks for your input Jbinill. Is it worth a couple hundred maybe. I have no idea what to tell her,

[JBinIll]

Maybe up to $500 in the right venue.It's hard for many older people to accept sentimental value is worth nothing in the open market and not everything old is worth a lot although it "looks just like" that one they just appraised on Antiques Road Show for thousands.Any local muzzle loading clubs in the area?Someone able to examine it locally who is versed in the history of the area in person may have a better idea as to the who,what,when,and the where of it and give a better idea of value and a possible maker.

[p246]

Thanks. She's pretty grounded and thought it was worth 3 to 400. Then she took it to a local gun shop. They said it was made in 1816 and might be worth 5000.00. She didn't buy that. When I went to look at it I thought it might be a 1816 Harper's Ferry or Springfield. As soon as I saw it I knew it wasn't. Not sure where the LGS person got that. Maybe she should take it back to them and offer it for $2500 Lol. Once again thanks for the help.

[JBinIll]

LOL Yea,that's the ticket.Heck of a bargain for the LGS.Put it in a good antique auction,might bring more than $500.Most local gun shops unless they deal in antique and collectible firearms with regularity don't have a clue.All half stocks are "Hawken Rifles",all military MLers are "muskets",anything with something remotely resembling a horse is a Colt,all Lugers are worth thousands.

[Johnny P]

Agree with JB that it has none of the characteristics of an original Hawken.

[musketshooter]

It has no Hawken features. It appears to be an Ohio Style half stock. Very late percussion era. Condition appears to be "wall hanger" grade. Value would be around $200-250.

[p246]

Thanks musket shooter.

[jjrothWA]

It Looks like a St. Louis Hawken, going on the iron fitting, half-stock BUT where's the patchbox & sights??

Sugest contacting either DIXIE Gun Work in TN or the Log Cabin [Lodi, OH] and show the photo's to them.

[Tom Trevor]

Tell her to return to the gun shop and say "I ACCEPT YOUR OFFER OF 5,000.00" Then watch the worm squirm.

[p246]

Tell her to return to the gun shop and say "I ACCEPT YOUR OFFER OF 5,000.00" Then watch the worm squirm.

I told her to take it to em and say. I have a hell of a deal for you $2500.00... Then I told her to watch em backpeddle.