View Full Version : I have a question on a couple of early carbine parts
I tried to amend the heading but couldn't find how. Here are photos of my early carbine and one question I have is on the stock. In one book I read that the cartouche wasn't transferred to the right side butt stock until serial 30,000. Otherwise the stock appears to be a correct early high wood with no bomb stamped in the inside of the forearm and a bomb and IO in the sling well. Is that 30,000 number set in stone or is it possible the stock could be within the approx. range for the serial number and 7-42 date of my carbine? Ray
Early on in 1943 about January time frame for the plunger. That would be roughly about serial number 160,000 for Inland. The type 2 plunger didn't last all that long before it too was replaced. The acceptance stamp moving from inside the sling well to the right side was also early on. Again roughly about serial number 30,000 the switch had taken place to the right side of the stock and before serial number 100,000 the large stamp was in use by Inland.
Thanks Tuna, Here's more photos, Ray
Ray you have a beautiful carbine and it appears to be all original. Very nice indeed.
Embalmer
06-19-2014, 02:44
Nice. I'm a sucker for early inlands
firstflabn
06-19-2014, 03:35
If my counting skills are up to par - that's a 26-1/2 coil hammer spring. These were approved sometime soon after May 1, 1943.
Interesting, How many coils should the original period spring have and why would it be changed to the later one? Is it a stronger spring? Ray
The original springs were 22 coils and the spring coil count was changed shortly after it was approved in May 1943 with the approval of the type 3 hammer which went into production in the September/October 1943 time frame. The 26 coil spring is stronger then the 22 coil spring and was changed to insure more positive hammer fall. Some manufacturers used the 22 coil spring up to about the end of 1943.
Thanks tuna. I guess I will have replace the spring with a 22 coil one if I want to return the carbine to it's period configuration as I won't be shooting it. Probably a company arms room replacement upgrade. Anyone have an extra 22 coil spring in their parts bin they could part with or if it's only the coil difference, I suppose I could just clip off a few coils. But I'd rather have an original one. Ray
Look on GB or Ebay for one. I have seen them offered there before.
Finally got to my books. The coils on the 22 coil spring are larger/thicker in dia so it won't work just to cut down the longer one I need an original one, Ray
Just to make sure that the spring was the only thing changed/upgraded. I took the bolt apart and everything is as it should be. The cone shaped extractor plunger, the type #1 extractor, and correct firing pin, Ray
firstflabn
06-20-2014, 06:17
Straight hammer and 26-1/2 coil hammer spring for new production were approved at the same time. MWO ORD B28-W1 (for existing carbines) included the same requirement to replace hammer and spring together. In the latter case, quantities of the two parts would have been shipped together (I presume as a kit).
So, take your pick - perhaps a product of a field salvage operation where the niceties of paperwork were often ignored out of necessity - or - a later restoration/repair by who knows who. Either theory could account for the stock and HG almost certainly being a good bit later.
MWO-1 states its purpose as: "To reduce trigger pull."
Straight hammer and 26-1/2 coil hammer spring for new production were approved at the same time. MWO ORD B28-W1 (for existing carbines) included the same requirement to replace hammer and spring together. In the latter case, quantities of the two parts would have been shipped together (I presume as a kit).
So, take your pick - perhaps a product of a field salvage operation where the niceties of paperwork were often ignored out of necessity - or - a later restoration/repair by who knows who. Either theory could account for the stock and HG almost certainly being a good bit later.
MWO-1 states its purpose as: "To reduce trigger pull."
How and why the spring and stock got changed is Just one of those little things I guess we will never know. I was wondering though, the hand guard has the Ord bomb, and either just an "O", or a "O I", I can't make out which, would that also be later like you mentioned?
Also Just curious on how much later the stock is then my carbine. What month would a carbine be made starting at 30,000? (Well answered my own question as I just looked it up in War Baby. It would be approx. Oct.- Dec.), Ray
Duane Hansen
06-21-2014, 03:54
I'm just learning about these Carbines and am curious about the mags. Is there any particular marking on a 15 round mag that would be more correct than another. Which ones would be more likely to have come with this early Inland Carbine. I know that there were many different marks on the mags so I just wondered.
An early Inland magazine would be a type 1 with the flat base plate. It would be marked with IA, AI, SY-I, IU, II, KI, TI, SI. So in general any 2 letter combo with an I in it could have been made for Inland.
Duane Hansen
06-22-2014, 02:08
Thanks again Tuna for the information, it is most appreciated.
Regarding that only the spring was changed in my 42 carbine and not both the later hammer and spring at the same time and why if when the items were authorized and came in pairs to be replaced only the spring was replaced in the gun. Being curious about the springs which I never paid attention to them before, I checked the springs on my three mid and latter year 1943 dated M1A1 carbines and two of them had the type III springs and hammers apparently as authorized, but one of the mid year ones still had the earlier type II hammer but the later spring. Again the question of who added that spring? I guess this again just goes to show that nothing is certain with carbines.
Also in looking to see if by chance I had a 22 coil spring in my small stash of carbine parts, I came across a type II hammer with "MC" stamped on it, what mfg. would that be? Ray
The 26 1/2 coil hammer spring and the straight hammer (type IV) were not part of a kit. They were individually packaged parts, although some were repackaged by the Ordnance Dept. personnel in packs of ten each. If a carbine had a damaged or lost hammer spring the unit armor or operator could easily just replace the spring.
MC marked hammers were made by The Marco Company during WWII as field replacement parts.
Thanks Brian for that info. The springs maybe were replaced on the carbines even if the old springs that were on them were still ok as there may have been some problems associated with the weaker springs to cause the issuing of stronger springs. Ray
Well made the carbine a little more correct, I obtained a 22-1/2 coil spring and replaced the in-correct period spring that was in it. There must be a easy way of replacing a spring because I tried putting it back in the way I took it out, up and out, but it wouldn't line up in the hole and after trying for about 1/2 hr, I finally tried a different approach and removed the hammer pin and lined the spring up against the loose hammer and compressed the spring and at the same time moving/sliding the hammer back to were the pin holes lined up and replaced the pin to secure the hammer and spring. Not sure if that's the way it's supposed to be done but it worked. Also the carbine has an early magazine in it.
emmagee1917
07-11-2014, 11:03
With hammer fully forward , place spring and guide in hole by running along the right side of the hammer ( right is right , left is wrong ) . Use the tip of the mainspring guide in the hammer spring guide's loop to compress spring and guide the loop into the hammer's notch.
Chris
Thanks Chris. I was trying to put it back with the hammer back. If I would have had any brains, I would have realized the hammer should be forward. Oh well, never was the sharpest knife in the drawer, Lol, Ray
emmagee1917
07-11-2014, 04:12
Most people try to do it from the wrong side ......" Hey , they put a notch in the hammer here for the spring / plunger to clear " .
Chris
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