Strange M1903 Rebuild

[thorin6]

I was at a gunsmith's office last week, and he showed me an SA M1903 in a non-finger grooved stock that I would normally take for a WWII rebuild. The receiver was late 1918 (1,0xx,xxx because I don't remember the last numbers), the stock was an S stock with pins, it had Remington cartouches (and assembler's marks in front of the trigger guard and P under the grip) and an RAP above the cartouches. The hand guard was a WWII replacement. It had a Remington bolt and rear sight. However, it had an SA barrel dated 12-12, and it was absolutely pristine; no frosting, no pitting, no indication anyone had ever shot a corrosively primed bullet down it. Lands and grooves were sharp and distinct. The stock was obviously used in an earlier build so I'm not sure how that fits in this picture. If the barrel was frosted or showed signs of use I'd just mark it up to a gunsmith or garage rebuild, which it still may be. Is is possible that Springfield Armory had a 12-12 barrel sitting around and put it on during a rebuild?

[Johnny P]

It sounds like something someone put together rather than being an arsenal overhaul.

[chuckindenver]

parts gun most likely

[thorin6]

It sounds like something someone put together rather than being an arsenal overhaul.
I tend to agree, but where did the pristine 12-12 dated barrel come from?

[p246]

There a lot of surplus military parts stored in dark corners. Part of my adventures is searching for them. I imagine that barrel was found the same way.

[Rick the Librarian]

Early barrels were often "recycled". Maybe something happened to the 1912 receiver and it was scrapped. I've seen quite a few "low numbered" barrels on later rifles. I'm not talking about the "rest" of the rifle, just the barreled receiver.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

I just sold a stash of old barrels, all dated before 1918. Some looked new as the day they left the armory. They are out there.

jt

[Col. Colt]

Did the gun have the regular Remington inspectors marks in front of the floorplate, or was there just three numbers? I have what seems to be a parts gun, too, except that it has the small Remington proof (P in circle) on the pistol grip and the number "7" above and centered over "4 5 " directly in front of the front trigger guard screw actually look more like a date than inspectors marks. The "Remington" sized proof on a scant stock without 03A3 cuts and no cartouche except for those three numbers is what has me thinking.

My understanding is that Remington was let a Rebuild Contract on 1903s in mid 1945 after the war was almost won, and that the agreement was that Remington would get ten dollars and some change for rebuilding each rifle to servicable, with the Government supplying any necessary parts. That would seem to me why my gun has an SA 10 of 42 barrel (used now, but with considerable shine left inside), an also near new appearing "Commercial Controls" bolt, with new Remington bolt sleeve and firing pin rod. The rear sling swivel mount (stamped, 03A3 R marked) and screws, the middle band and spring and the nosecap/bayonet band all have the same even slate grey color as if refinished/finished in the same batch, and the screw heads look unboogered. The rear sight leaf is reparked, yet the action (an RIA from 1918) and triggerguard floorplate are not refinished, with finish now turning to patina. So, what do we have here? Parts gun or rebuild? CC

So either someone put together an M1903 with some neat and new parts at home, or, could it have been repaired/assembled by Remington with the "parts provided" by the Government out of excess stocks. The smaller diameter Remington proof mark is applied in my case to an M1903 (Only) Scant Stock with no A3 handguard ring cuts (and no Remington inspectors marks), when Remington only used Scants on 03A4 Sniper Rifles, right? Just wondering out loud. Any thoughts? CC

[John Beard]

Army policy, starting in 1927, called for scrapping the receivers of all low number rifles turned in for overhaul. Occasionally, those low number rifles had serviceable barrels. In that case, the barrels were salvaged and re-used on high number rifles turned in for overhaul. The rifle you describe may be one such rifle.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[thorin6]

I have a Remington M1903A3 that appears to be as Col. Colt describes (numbers ahead of the floor plate, etc.) and this M1903 was in a Remington stock with all the usual builder's marks ahead of it and the original cartouches on the left side, so I don't think it was one of those rebuild by Remington at the end of the war. While I didn't mention it, the rear barrel band was for a M1903A3, while the front band was for a M1903 (with the H on the lug), which reinforces the idea that as it currently stands, it's a parts rifle. The real question is whether the barrel could have been original to a rebuild, and John Beard has answered that. I appreciate the comments.

[Mike D]

To answer the original question - possible, but not likely. Some photos would sure help.

Mike

[Col. Colt]

As a novice at M1903s in general, I am always trying to learn more - and then understand what I am looking at! I don't always get it right, but I am learning. And I love a good mystery. And the gun in question, which might be an open book to an experienced collector, is a question mark to me.......

My interest in this RIA, which I purchased as a "parts gun" was just as a shooter. And it may well be only that - a rifle somebody put together from a lot of new parts he had available on an older reciever.

But the small (unique?) Remington "P" in Circle on an early scant stock without the "03A3 cuts" raises a question - what was Remington doing with this stock, apparently in 1945? And if the number stamps in front of the trigger guard are what they look like - a date - that corresponds to time period in which Remington was doing a "cost plus parts" servicability rebuild of 1903s, using US Government supplied parts (rather than just Remington parts) maybe that makes this rifle make more sense. Or Not!

So my follow on question to my conjecture above is, on a $10.00 per gun (with supplied US government parts) rebuild, would Remington refinish the whole rifle - or just install the supplied parts if the finish on major parts was still "Serviceable"? CC

[John Beard]

I have a copy of the rifle overhaul procedure that Army Ordnance sent to Remington. Without going and digging up that procedure, I would state that Remington did not refinish a rifle just for the sake of refinishing it. The existing finish was probably inspected and, if deemed serviceable, then the rifle was simply repaired and submitted for government inspection. I know that this was the procedure in effect at other Army arsenals and depots from that period.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[Col. Colt]

Thanks so very much, John, as always! That helps confirm, at least, that Remington might have possibly assembled it, even if it is not "proof".

The "small" Remington CircleP proofmarked scant stock alone cannot, of course, prove where all the other parts have been, and when. But it is an interesting combination of parts.

And, even better, it is a "first round hit" rifle. First shot ever, 200 yards, aiming a little below a filled milk xxxx exploded it! I think the wartime SA (1942 in this case) Barrels work just fine, if this is a fair example! CC