Fury - another WWII movie [Archive] - Jouster2 Shooting Forums

oldtirediron

09-11-2014, 03:53

Can't wait to see this movie ! I think it is a remake of "The Tanks are Coming" made in 1951-- true story of the leading and first tank crew to cross into Germany and the SGT. that was their driving force! Incredible but true story!! Hollywood has nothing on the real crew!! What they did could not even be screen written today!! Read about this tanker-- Lafayette G. Pool (1919-1991), Here is a link to the movie;

http://www.tcm.com/this-month/article/383216%7C383230/The-Tanks-Are-Coming.html -------

read about these guys; truth is stranger than fiction; I had a relative that was a tank commander in the 3rd Armored and had 4 tanks shot out from under him and he was the only survivor twice!!

p246

09-11-2014, 06:46

I'm looking forward to it. My grandpa Traul joined after Pearl Harbor at 28. His nickname from both his crews was gramps. He trained in Lees and fought Sherman's his last being the 76mm high velocity easy eight.

He started in Africa and ended the war in Italy. Like the hero old tired iron talks about he lost his first crew and had to abandoned several other tanks. From memory they had to run from one in Africa when the front idler was shot off loosing the track with it. In Sicily they had to check out a new tank when the 75mm main gun was shot off two feet from the turret by something mean. In Italy he lost his first crew when they ran over a land mine. They were not in contact and he was sitting up in the commanders hatch. He was blown free of the tank but the other four heros were killed. With his second crew they got a tread shot off and had to run for it. The last tank he had to turn in was hit in the gun mantel by want he thinks was a smaller anti tank round. The mantel stop any penetration but jammed the turrent in the ring. We lost him in 1978. I wished he would have lived longer and I would have gotten more time with him, but such is the way of life.

Embalmer

10-17-2014, 08:54

Just saw it today. Not a bad movie. Very graphic violence.

PKelly

10-18-2014, 11:42

PhillipM

10-18-2014, 08:04

Saw it last night, overall a good effort. It was lacking in character development and you never really get a clear window into who the crew members are as individuals, and at a run time of nearly two and a half hours there was no excuse not to provide it. On the positive side, I believe it gives a pretty accurate and grim picture of the realities of WWII armored warfare. I especially enjoyed the scene in which four Sherman's engage a lone Tiger. I'm sure there will be historical inaccuracies on the technical front and I'm not well versed enough in armored warfare to find them, so I'll leave that to the history nazis. Recommended.

They used screw top fuel cans! Oh the horror!

I really enjoyed the movie, it is a day in the life of a tank crew, not a biography of their lives, so I'm good with no background and would probably gone to get popcorn if there had been flashbacks with momma and the girlfriend. The point of view is mainly from the young newbie that has 8 weeks in service and then is thrust into the thick of things. All he knows is what he sees and is told, there is no time for back story.

The dogface with the M1 and the cape around his helmet was badass.

It was a real treat to see the only operational Tiger on the big screen!

If I were the director, I would have ended not with the damaged 'Fury', but with a tank retriever hauling it off to be patched up, hosed off, and fitted with a new crew as what was actually done, showing that the war goes on.

p246

10-18-2014, 08:39

I do remember my Grandfather talking about using smoke to close the distance on bigger German armor. I also remember when they got the HV 76mm guns they'd use bait tanks to get the enemy to expose their position so the HV tank, which was hidden, could hopefully kill it. He also talked about using the Sherman's speed but I can't remember the details.

Either way saw the movie and liked it. Thought it was weird to see Pitt using a Stg 44. I liked seeing both short barreled 75 Sherman's and long barreled 76's. I was going to watch for any three piece cast front end early Sherman's but don't remember any. The Tiger was also neat to see, although in the movie it seems almost as agile as a Sherman which is not true. It had a lot going for it but speed and agility were not any of them.

Its worth seeing in my opinion.

PhillipM

10-18-2014, 08:51

I never knew any tankers, but was around as a kid for some of the 101'st AB recon platoon reunions. The scenes in the town where they were dismounted and interacted with Germans, both soldiers and civilian, tracked closely with the way the vets I knew described it. One comment in particular I remember was, "We were the conquerors, everything was all ours." I had the benefit of being around them as sort of a fly on the wall when they drank their Old Charter and Coke and talked among themselves. What really got me what when the war was over, for them, it was OVER. They captured some German plinking at them on a mountain and after disarming him, got him drunk.

PhillipM

10-18-2014, 08:53

I also watched Patton the other day for the first time in years and in the very beginning someone tells Bradley that the German tanks were diesel and didn't explode when hit and ours being gasoline blew up.

Further research reveals the German tanks were gasoline too and ours blew up because they were hit in their cannon magazines, but the myth persists.

Col. Colt

10-19-2014, 04:22

Just got back from seeing "Fury" and must give it an enthusiastic thumbs up! I spend as little with Hollywood as possible, but once in a while they do something good in spite of themselves. Very gritty and tough, no sugar coatings - but very INTENSE and real. Our fathers and grandfathers real did have "It" - in spades. Watch the fight with the Tiger and realize that what is being depicted happened more often than not. Tankers had a very poor life expectancy in the US Army in Europe in WWII. CC

PS - GO see it - if for no other reason than to send a message to Hollywood that we want, and will support with our dollars, reality and a good, honest telling of US History - we can take the ugly so long as they show the Noble with it, and in proper proportion. I did not find the profanity or the religious references (either one) to be odd for troops in a life and death setting. Pretty real, as best as I can tell having not been there. CC

Embalmer

10-19-2014, 05:58

If I were the director, I would have ended not with the damaged 'Fury', but with a tank retriever hauling it off to be patched up, hosed off, and fitted with a new crew as what was actually done, showing that the war goes on.

least I wasn't the only one to have thought, that should have been the ending.

Wishing my paternal grandfather was still alive. he was a tank driver in the 4th armored, and came home badly injured from the battle of the bulge. though not to extent some of the other tanks crews got. would be very curious to get his take on it, but know he probably wouldn't go see it. There were quite a few wwii vets that were at the first showing on Friday here. all had armor division pins on their wwii vet hats. end a couple seemed a bit shooken up.

sgm11z

10-19-2014, 01:47

Despite the user name I spent my 1st few years as a tanker (M60's)in the late 1960's and went from loader to driver to gunner before cycling out to track commander of our M577 command post track.

That said the movie was, from my perspective a pretty accurate portrayal of life as a tanker, noisy, dirty, dangerous; not only in combat but around the clock with lots of big moving parts just waiting to hurt you. the tactic used to engage the Tiger; at least three on one when possible, was what some of our "old guys" remembered as how they engaged Tigers and Panthers, in order to have a chance to kill the other tank and survive.

I have to give the movie a thumbs up and from what I could see the weaponry and equipment as well as how the crew interacted was well done. That plus the initial response to the new crew member when he came on board. Tankers tend to live together and also to die together. Frankly I was glad to transfer to the infantry for the rest of my career but I can still get nostalgia to the smell of diesel smoke on a wet cold day.

Just my two bits thrown in.

M1Tommy

10-22-2014, 11:20

dave

10-22-2014, 01:58

Yeh, good 'ol Brad said he learned a lot about war!!

Embalmer

10-22-2014, 02:54

I saw the movie and want to ask a question... without giving away movie plot and such.

Would Sherman tanks actually attack a Tiger, like they did in the movie? It seemed a bit hookey to me, and not what I'd figure good tactics would call for. Then again, I've never been 'there' and this former TMT2 doesn't really know tanks.

Tommy

Was a known fact that the tactic to take on tigers and Panthers, were to attack them in groups. Why my grandfather camehome after battle of bulge in essentially a full body cast after his tank was knocked down a hill by a panther while trying to flank it. Said of the 4 Sherman's against it 2 were knocked out and or fire, and his was on its side

M1Tommy

10-22-2014, 09:45

Was a known fact that the tactic to take on tigers and Panthers, were to attack them in groups. Why my grandfather camehome after battle of bulge in essentially a full body cast after his tank was knocked down a hill by a panther while trying to flank it. Said of the 4 Sherman's against it 2 were knocked out and or fire, and his was on its side

Movie spoilers..............

I would have expected them to split in different directions and try to flank, with one or tow staying in the trees for some cover. THen again, I am nor ever was a tanker.
Thanks for that reply. I have never known any armor folks from WWII. My own grandfather never returned from there, and is buried in Margraten Cemetery.

Tommy

PhillipM

10-22-2014, 11:45

I saw the movie and want to ask a question... without giving away movie plot and such.

Would Sherman tanks actually attack a Tiger, like they did in the movie? It seemed a bit hookey to me, and not what I'd figure good tactics would call for. Then again, I've never been 'there' and this former TMT2 doesn't really know tanks.

Tommy

The actual doctrine was for the Shermans to be infantry support and let tank destroyers, M10's and the fabulous M18 Hellcat, tangle with the Tigers or let artillery blot them out. But then that was the theory and then there was reality.

M1Tommy

10-23-2014, 08:06

The actual doctrine was for the Shermans to be infantry support and let tank destroyers, M10's and the fabulous M18 Hellcat, tangle with the Tigers or let artillery blot them out. But then that was the theory and then there was reality.

I would think as such, both about the doctrine and the reality.

The movie showing them lining up abreast and charging like horse cavalry in an old Western movie was a bit odd, in my formerly squidly mind anyways.
Thanks for that reply.

Tommy

Col. Colt

10-23-2014, 02:26

But none of those assets are available, or are going to be, in time. War is terrain and circumstances, minute to minute. Your platoon is the only one available - there is no one else to call on. You break thru the trees and into the open and you are engaged! And if you have to get to your objective to prevent a disaster, and you have a chance - then you have to try. You go with what you've got and pray it will be enough. That would appear to be the reality in place here. CC

Guamsst

10-29-2014, 08:12

The movie showing them lining up abreast and charging like horse cavalry in an old Western movie was a bit odd......

Ideally ANY OTHER ANTI TANK WEAPON would go after the tanks. Artillery being the best option. Then tank destroyers, then tanks and anti tank infantry. Reality was that time and again Americans, Canadians and Russians just ran headlong into the Germans with the Sherman. Ideally, when attacking with a Sherman you would want 5 Shermans against a Tiger as that was the loss rate. Then you would want to flank at high speed so that someone always has a side or rear shot. Again, reality being that there were usually less than 5 Shermans and they were luck if any of them got a good shot. The Shermans best weapon was gas mileage. Many unharmed Shermans drove past unused Tigers and Panthers that had been abandoned after running out of gas...... 4mpg seems awful until you consider the Tigers 4 GALLONS to the mile.

Let it never be said the American military lets the odds rule their actions.

Art

10-29-2014, 09:39

p246

10-29-2014, 09:49

The Sherman "Firefly" which was a British variation armed with the very powerful Brit. 17 pdr. anti tank gun could destroy Panther and Tiger tanks at almost any angle and at decent ranges. The Germans regarded the Firefly as the most lethal variant of the Sherman when it came to tank to tank fighting. On August 8, 1944 Michael Wittmann, one of the leading Nazi Tiger Tank aces was killed when his Tiger I was destroyed by a Firefly (see picture.) Unfortunately we didn't have any fireflies.

To add to Arts comment when Wittmans Tiger attacked the British 7th at Villers Bocage he had his gunner hit the parked Fireflys first.I believe there were 3 fireflys parked together. Wittman obviously had a healthy respect for the long barreled HV Firefly.

p246

10-29-2014, 10:08

Having been fortunate to have a Grandfather who talked some to me as a boy I'll add a couple other tidbits I remember. He started the war in North Africa. Very early on in a Grant but quickly got an early Sherman with the three piece cast front nose. It was in North Africa that he first dealt with or saw a Tiger. At that point the Mark 3 was the main adversey with some Mark 4's mixed in. The Tiger was a shock to them when first encounter. Interestingly the only Mark 2 he ever saw was in North Africa. The first Sherman he got was abandoned when the undercarrage was shot destroying several bogies and breaking the track. Sherman no 2 was traded out when the 75mm main gun was hit and cut off 2 feet in front of the turrent.

Sicily. Mainly saw Mark 3 and 4's along with TD's. Sherman 3 hit land mind blowing him clear as he was standing in commanders hatch, the rest of his crew was lost.

Italy. First Panthers observed. Remembered one Tiger 2 broke down and abandoned. Sherman number 4 handed in when round struck at base of turrent jammimg turrent ring

Sherman number 5 was first long barreled 76. Finished war with number 5 and second crew. Both loaders were nicknamed Shorty. Both crews called him Gramps. In 1941 he was 28 years old and finished the war at 32. To the 18 to 19 year old he was ancient.

That's some of my rambling memories an old war horse shared with a young stary eyed kid many years ago.

Guamsst

10-30-2014, 07:59

....... Sherman no 2 was traded out when the 75mm main gun was hit and cut off 2 feet in front of the turrent.....

Was that in North Africa? The exact scenario was portrayed on "Greatest Tank Battles" I think that was the show at least....

TSimonetti

11-01-2014, 06:29

I guess I'll be the lone naysayer here for now. I saw this movie tonight and give it 1.5 out of 4 stars.

MILD SPOILER:

If it wasn't for the great special effects, I would have rated it even more poorly. The beginning scene was laughable, and the ending scene very unbelievable. the parts in between were often cringe-worthy from an historical perspective. The main characters for the most part were utterly boorish, unlikeable and unsettling with zero chemistry between them, and the tactical elements missed the mark from my perspective.

The director seemed to be trying a bit too hard not only to show that Americans could be as brutal as their enemies but also portrayed them as enjoying and relishing that role for the most part.... I found that aspect very distasteful. Ironic that the only act of compassion and chivalry shown on either side was by an SS trooper near the end of the movie towards a defenseless enemy..

I could go on, but I think you get my drift.

PhillipM

11-01-2014, 07:37

TSimonetti

11-02-2014, 03:39

Was it not chivalry when the assistant driver did not fire on the child with the pazerfaust?

Perhaps, but that doesn't save his underdeveloped character, or the film's hackneyed use of "clerk typist turned combat soldier"(which at least Saving Private Ryan managed to pull off with adequate success)

Another "chivalrous" act I suppose was when Pitt's character threatened violence on anyone in his crew who tried to sexually assault a young girl (after threatening to do the same thing himself earlier)

Among many other things, this movie could have probably benefited from some clever use of flashbacks and more character development. The entire disturbing and unnecessary scene with the two women could have been totally cut out to make room for such things.

If you like action and excellent special effects, and would like to see a bunch of Nazis getting hosed, this one fits the bill nicely. If you want a good story line, and real historical accuracy rather than an overly cryptic, modern pop mythology version of late WW2 on the Western Front, skip it.

Tony

M1Tommy

11-03-2014, 02:49

Perhaps, but that doesn't save his underdeveloped character, or the film's hackneyed use of "clerk typist turned combat soldier"(which at least Saving Private Ryan managed to pull off with adequate success)

Another "chivalrous" act I suppose was when Pitt's character threatened violence on anyone in his crew who tried to sexually assault a young girl (after threatening to do the same thing himself earlier)

Among many other things, this movie could have probably benefited from some clever use of flashbacks and more character development. The entire disturbing and unnecessary scene with the two women could have been totally cut out to make room for such things.

If you like action and excellent special effects, and would like to see a bunch of Nazis getting hosed, this one fits the bill nicely. If you want a good story line, and real historical accuracy rather than an overly cryptic, modern pop mythology version of late WW2 on the Western Front, skip it.

Tony

You're not the only one who was less than thrilled with the movie. Even my 18 year old son was not impressed.
Tommy

Col. Colt

11-04-2014, 05:20

Personally, I think you naysayers have a bit too much "Hollywood Reporter" in your veins............... :)

And you apparently missed the best, most inspirational parts of the movie - the two scenes of serious "Sacrifice to Duty" that were quite real - and happened in many places and all theatres of war - where you do what has to be done, even if your chances of personal survival are slim to none - for the good of the cause.

The first such scene was when they turned right into the Tiger's sights and then recognizing the threat (and knowing the only way to beat a Tiger was for one of them to work his way behind it) charged as a group - knowing the Tiger was unlikely to get all of them in time. Nobody chickened out or ran, despite the horrible odds. (Quoting something I heard from another site, where a German tank commander admitted that a Tiger could generally take on and defeat as many as five Shermans in battle - except there was always SIX Shermans!)

The second, quite obvious scene was after they lost a track at the Crossroad. Everybody piles out, and, quite reasonably, the crew decides they are done for and must walk away from the disabled tank. No way to win - 300 SS Troops to one damaged Sherman.

Only Wardaddy sees The Mission is more important than himself and his crew, initially. But he rallys them, reminds them what they came there to do - and they climb back in and fight. Just like the 300 Spartans - there is no chance of victory or escape, this is a sacrifice play to protect the larger American force - and they are the only ones left who can do it. "They saw their duty and they done it!". That was the real message of the movie - and a fitting tribute to those who did just that and didn't come home, as way too many WWII tankers did not. Entire crews killed in an instant - that was reality then. Or being trapped and surrounded - and fighting to the end.

If you missed getting that out of those two scenes - then I can see why you panned it so hard. Like "Saving Private Ryan" the current moviegoing generation can always use another good, hard look at what sacrifice for a noble cause looks like. Just in case that knowledge is needed again....... CC

Roadkingtrax

11-04-2014, 08:26

The final scene could of been all of 10 minutes, a couple Panzerfuasts.....tank is done. Movie was OK, not great.

No large group of men would have taken so many losses trying to frontal assault a tank after it started firing. Dumb to a fault was the finale. I'm with M1Tommy and TSimonetti, you could sit down in the middle of the movie...watch the scene with the Tiger...and walk out.

As a matter of fact, let me save you $10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WPoe-H-nrg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYylN7WGLCc

I've got more reservations about open troop movements by the Germans in April of 1945, without any harassment by allied aircraft....it just didn't happen. The SS soldier at the end? If I just saw 100+ of my guys get mowed down...I'd have no problems finishing the job.

Col. Colt

11-05-2014, 12:28

I'll surrender my Cynic card to you guys - if you read actual accounts and study it you find out that a lot of very strange stuff happens in war, stranger than anything in any movie. As Mark Twain put it (and he knew about fiction) "Of course truth is stranger than fiction - the truth doesn't have to make sense". I agree with the logic of your first line, Roadkingtrax. It could have ended that quick. But logic doesn't always happen on the battlefield. "No plan survives first contact in war", or words to that effect.

At any one moment we did not have air cover blanketing every square inch of Germany, even in 1945. The SS troops may have been the best the Germans had left, but some looked awful young - like most of the German Army at that point. Nice uniforms (maybe new replacements?) - how much training did the Germans have time for in 1945? Our best - and the enemies best - don't always get it right, then or now. And compassion is a human trait - just as much as hate and revenge.

The willingess to sacrifice - and the lousy odds an American Tanker lived with every day, THAT sacrifice looked like the message to me. In Saving Private Ryan the dogface got his due - "Earn It" said by the dying Captain.

Me, I'm glad the Tankers got their honors here. Not much attention or glamor in crewing a noisy, ugly tank until this movie. I'm only sorry it didn't get made ten years ago so a few more WWII tankers were still alive to see it.
Damn sure enough of them died in their Shermans to merit this movie, and a moment's glory and remembrance. Glad I got more out of it than some of you - it was worth the $10 to me. CC

Allen

11-05-2014, 06:55

I saw Fury. Though I feel there was a lot of room for improvement I feel that way about most all movies. I'm glad I saw it and like Col. Colt said I'm glad the movie was made. The movie is different, it is centered around the lives of the tankers who are long overdue for their recognition and sacrifices. I recommend it. You will find some interest in it and the box office needs this kind of ticket sales $ to encourage them to make more of the same.

oldtirediron

11-05-2014, 10:31

If you ever talked with any true combat veterans' you would find that truth is stranger than fiction-- One guy I met was in an armored convoy in the desert in North Africa, he said it was so hot hat he was wearing gloves any trying to stand away from the sides of his half track-- The armor was so hot that it was scorching his hands through the leather gloves he was wearing !! Anyway in typical forced march fashion his track was in the rear of the column so he was getting choked by dust and their track kept stalling !! So the rest of the column proceeded to the destination and they were to catch up !! So after they cleaned the oil bath air cleaner for the second or third time they continued to the destination-- Or so they thought--- They saw a vehicle up by a mud hut and pulled up to the front of it-- and got the surprise of their lives!! When they walked in the place was vacant and their was a big meal being cooked !! The vehicle was a small German tank half camouflaged next to the building and the Germans were evidently not paying attention as the food was cooking and their uniforms were all nicely strung around and cleaned--- So they figured out that the Germans were cleaning their uniforms and gear and thought that the vehicle was one of theirs- Actually the guys in the track had missed a turn in the dusk and were about a mile behind the German lines!! So I am sure this old guy's story was true because of the look on his face and what he said then "This was the first time I escaped death in combat!"

Griff Murphey

11-05-2014, 06:55

In the early 60's the studios would ring up the California National Guard and ask them for tanks and whatever was on the lot would be in the film. So the German tanks would be M-48s painted gray and regular M-48s would be the Americans. Need fighters? AT-6's! Good for any country's fighters of the Second World War! When I see a war movie I am not going in order to see Brad Pitt. IMHO it is hard for "modern" actors to come off as WW-2 era people anyway. I guess I am just unsophisticated but I am glad to see accurate hardware and effects, without saying, "Oh, yeah, that's an M-41 Walker Bulldog...." I agree the characters were a bit wooden but I still liked it.

StockDoc

11-07-2014, 08:32

I saw the movie the other day and liked it for what it was, entertainment. It was not realistic, 300 SS going down the road directly at a tank, when it could of been by passed. Scouts would of came back and said that a tank blocked the road and would of flanked the tank and put it out of action.

I took exception to the enemy being called Nazis instead of what they were GERMANs. Or maybe the battle was Nazis vs Democrats.

Col. Colt

11-08-2014, 02:12

They didn't have to bypass a knocked out tank - which is why the burning bodys, why the tank crew did not fire until almost surrounded, etc.

The SS were not regular german troops - they wore the Death's Head insignia and as I read the definition from Wikipedia I'll post here, I think the term used was accurate. We were not there - and we don't realize the much more clear view our fathers had of things of their time, or the emotions they felt regarding what they knew. My Dad was in the Pacific, and he told me that the hatred of the Japanese was extremely real at the time - most everybody had lost someone in their family tree (Our family lost an uncle, a Navy bomber pilot), or just resented being pulled out of a peaceful existance to fight in hellholes by these "little yellow b@#$%ds". Sugar coating history is never a good idea - reality is reality. And the Germans and the Japanese are now among our best allies, and there is no lack of respect either way today.

"Fury" was a pretty well reseached movie, and there are not many contextual errors. Full credit to Wikipedia for the definition below - this is not my work.

"The Waffen-SS (German pronunciation: [ˈvafən.ɛs.ɛs], Armed SS) was created as the armed wing of the Nazi Party's Schutzstaffel (SS, "Protective Squadron"),[2] and gradually developed into a multi-ethnic and multi-national military force of Nazi Germany.[3]

The Waffen-SS grew from three regiments to over 38 divisions during World War II, and served alongside the Heer (regular army) but was never formally part of it.[4] Adolf Hitler resisted integrating the Waffen-SS into the army, as it was to remain the armed wing of the Party and to become an elite police force once the war was won.[5] Prior to the war, it was under the control of the SS FÃ¼hrungshauptamt (SS operational command office) beneath ReichsfÃ¼hrer-SS Heinrich Himmler. Upon mobilization its tactical control was given to the High Command of the Armed Forces (Oberkommando der Wehrmacht).[6]

Initially membership was only open to people of Germanic "Aryan" origin,[7] who were said to be the Herrenvolk (master race), according to Nazi racial ideology. "

This may be why "Wardaddy" (Brad Pit's character) had such a hostile reaction to the SS prisoner in the opening scene. He saw him as a "true believer" not just a German Soldier. CC

StockDoc

11-08-2014, 08:25

Yep they assumed the Tank was dead instead of bypassing it and they died. wasn't burning like a Sherman should.

No doubt the hatred, for the Jerry's or the Jap, at home as overseas, but they were called Germans, Krauts, Bosch, not Nazis. Just as the Japanese were called Japs, not Imperial Rule Assistance Association.

Death Heads unit were the ones at the Death Camp.

Good points though

TSimonetti

11-08-2014, 09:50

And you apparently missed the best, most inspirational parts of the movie - the two scenes of serious "Sacrifice to Duty" that were quite real - and happened in many places and all theatres of war - where you do what has to be done, even if your chances of personal survival are slim to none - for the good of the cause.

If you missed getting that out of those two scenes - then I can see why you panned it so hard. Like "Saving Private Ryan" the current moviegoing generation can always use another good, hard look at what sacrifice for a noble cause looks like. Just in case that knowledge is needed again....... CC

I didn't miss anything. Fury has several fatal flaws. All attempts to inspire were overshadowed by those flaws in my opinion.

I've rooted for Tom Hanks, and Audie Murphy, Gregory Peck, and Gary Cooper and countless other great actors in their war movies. I am well aware of how inspirational moments, noble causes, and scenes of selfless sacrifice can work to make a great movie with the right script and storyline. I am also aware of some unbelievable "against the odds" stories.

But all of that is pointless if your characters for the most part are utterly unlikeable and perhaps even arguably psychotic, and if your script is a holy mess.

PhillipM

11-09-2014, 01:08

If u out had put me in a tank in 1942, by 1945 I'd be a psychopath.

A friend of mine was in the 36th and during the occupation he had a German girlfriend. During this time the Allen were rounding up Nazis. She told him when things were going well they were ALL Nazis.

I remember going through ' The Epic of the 101st' with one of the vets. In it is a photo of an SSI officer practicing his pistol shooting by using Jew babies as a tossed aerial target. He called them Nazis, said they were bad people but not much on how they handled them.

Not many US forces actually engaged in combat with SS units, so they may have a different opinion of how to deal with the SS.

Art

11-23-2014, 08:38

I saw "Fury" in a theatre this weekend with my wife and our son. One of the first things you see after you buy your ticket in an AMC theatre is the "30.06" your concealed weapon is not welcome here sign. Makes me want to go to the movies......not.

I'd give the first part of the movie, before the road crossing battle a B+. The road battle a C. Total grade = C to C+.

I thought the production values were first rate. The acting overall was very good and I thought there was more character development than in most modern war movies. I actually, for the most part didn't find the characters to be unlikeable except that they were suffering from having been in combat for a very extended period of time, in Brad Pitt's character's case two years. From the people who were actually there who have talked to me any resemblance anybody had to a boy scout usually wore off very, very quickly.

The people who I knew who were actually in combat in Europe in WWII's account of action was very compatible with the first part of the movie. In fact one of my uncles who was a half track gunner in the third army told several stories very similar to those in the movie and recounted similar experiences, so I suspect that the producers and writers had access to accounts similar to his. He did say that the last really heavy fighting he engaged in was at the Rhine. While there was still hard fighting in pockets mostly by SS troops or kids who didn't know any better the Nazi army was withdrawing so quickly it wasn't even picking up its minefield markers. He did say his vehicle was destroyed by a Nazi fighter inside Germany so he wasn't saying it was all a piece of cake.

One of his and others I've talked to's pet peeves was movies in which a handful of Americans wipe out massive numbers of Germans of Japanese, As he said, had that been the case the war would have been over in a month. Makes for a better action movie though. The most unbelievable thing was the Sherman getting hit in the crew compartment by a Panzerfaust and only one crewman dying. The more real result was the fate lead tank in the column in the ambush.

One other aside, and this only relates to the Third Army. From what I was told looting was prohibited except for liquor which was permitted. Being drunk on duty, however was absolutely not permitted. Rape was severely punished but any woman who wanted to "barter" for food, cigarettes, soap, ect., well that was a different story as long as combat effectiveness wasn't affected, and that included coming down with a "social disease."

The most impressive combat sequences to me were the fight for the town and the engagement with the Tiger, very well done I thought.

It is "just a movie," but was pretty well done and it made me quite happy that I was not there!

TAXICAT

11-23-2014, 06:41

Nice reveiw art. I saw fury twice. Liked it both times. Second time was better than the first, i noticed alot of things i didn't notice the first time.the scene at the crossroads was a stretch.i think brad pitt got hit three times by the sniper and was still alive. To me it was just good entertainment.will watch it on cd when it becomes available.

jlutin

12-06-2014, 01:11

I saw it twice, and thought it was very well done. For context, I am a USAF Viet Nam era vet, not army, so I have no experience with tanks. I did read Belton Cooper's memoir "Death Traps," about the Shermans.

In reference to the clerk-typist cliche, that rang true. My late father-in-law, an insurance agent, was drafted in WWII at age 34. His discharge paper listed him as a clerk-typist. He served in the 45th division, 157th regiment. When he was in a nursing home, I sent to the Army for his decorations. They arrived after he died and included a bronze star and a combat infantryman's badge. That must have been some typewriter. During some battles, everyone got swept up and carried a rifle.

He rarely spoke of the war but once did mention his hatred of the Waffen SS. He also mentioned living in a foxhole during the winter, being mortared and shelled by 88's. So the fatigue and hatred of the Nazi's shown by the troops in Fury also rang true. First concentration camps were overrun n November 1944, so troops were aware of the horrors and the role of the SS.

The level of detail was exceptional. Red tracers for the US and green tracers for the Germans. Pitt's character carried a beat-up S&W 1917 .45. The grips had been replaced with plexiglas and had a photo of a pinup or girlfriend under them. That was common. US Army Air Corps mechanics would take broken aircraft windshields (there were plenty), manufacture custom grips from them, and sell or trade them to the GI's. I saw some made for captured Lugers.

I just finished reading Pulitzer Prize winner Rick Atkinson's The Guns at Last Light, third in his WWII trilogy. If you have not read it and are a WWII buff, I highly recommend the trilogy.

dryheat

01-06-2015, 12:42

When the young recruit retires to the room with Emma he gives her a palm reading. He tells her that the line on her hand indicates that she will have only one love. I was wondering about that prediction when he was giving it to her,but then it all unfolded as foretold. Just after that she is killed by artillery fire.

p246

01-06-2015, 07:35

Was that in North Africa? The exact scenario was portrayed on "Greatest Tank Battles" I think that was the show at least....

Sorry Guam missed this question. No it was in Italy if memory serves. I could be wrong he passed when I was 10 and he only started talking about the war the last year of his life to me at least. Talking to dad he confirmed the only Tiger he saw prior to wars end was an early Tiger 1 in Africa. in that case it was abandoned and had been heavily strafed and bombed from the air. He had a healthy respect for Panthers and faced those often later in the war.