View Full Version : Barrow gang Krag
jon_norstog
07-10-2014, 08:17
It's been a little slow on the Krag list ... here's something. This is a photo of W.D. Jones, Bonnie & Clyde's teenage accomplice, with some of their guns. Including a Krag carbine and a couple trench shotguns and maybe a couple Colt/S&W double action .45s.
27764
The gang was known to take guns when they could and did hit a National Guard armory in Oklahoma.
jn
Nice set of wheels. Is that a Packard?
psteinmayer
07-10-2014, 11:54
Nope, it's a 32 Ford... Clyde's preferred mode of transportation. Clyde Barrow was known to have used a Krag, and this photo is pretty good evidence that they possessed at least one example. However, Clyde mostly preferred a BAR, and had numerous BARs at his disposal, mostly stolen from National Guard Armories. When Bonnie and Clyde were ambushed by Frank Hamer and his posse (also armed with BARs, among other shotguns and pistols), they discovered an arsenal of BARs and thousands of rounds of ammo in the car.
Of Hamer's ambush party only one man was armed with a BAR,Ted Hinton.He was stationed down the road in case the other 5 didn't get them stopped.The rest were armed with Remington Mod 11 shotguns,"Winchesters" i.e. Mod 92 or 94 lever actions,and it is thought Prentiss Oakley used a borrowed Remington Model 8 in .35 Remington.Hinton's BAR was reported as being borrowed from the Texas NG.
Bonnie and Clyde had a veritable arsenal in their car.The inventory list-
3 BARs Model 1918
Winchester Model 1887 10 gauge sawed off
Remington Model 11 20 gauge sawed off
1 M1903 Colt .32 Automatic
1 M1908 Colt .380 Automatic
1 Colt M1917 Revolvert
7 Colt M1911 Automatics
100 loaded BAR Magazines
3000 Rounds of misc. ammunition
The BARs and presumably the M1911s were stolen from the Beaumont Texas NG armory.There is an extant photograph of the car that shows 4 BARs one of which is presumed to be the one used by Hinton.Quite a load for that 34 Ford they were in.No Krag though in that picture.
Here's another shot of the Krag.
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/d2/e7/13/d2e713a3fb0827f7ac37b1e91a5aecc3.jpg
kragluver
07-10-2014, 09:07
I have read that some of those B&C pictures were taken at a gas station where Cooper St and I-20 now cross in south Arlington, Tx.
psteinmayer
07-11-2014, 06:50
Ted Hinton and Bob Alcorn reported that each officer was armed with an automatic rifle (presumably a BAR), pistols and shotguns... but I also read the same as you reported elsewhere. In Hinton's report, he stated that they opened up with the automatic rifles, which were emptied before the car even got near them. Prentiss Oakley reportedly fired the first shot (before being ordered to do so), and the rest opened fire. I also read that Oakley's first shot was a fatal head shot to Clyde Barrow... Not bad for shooting at a target in a moving car!
I also knew about the arsenal in the car... but I think the BARs are the interesting items in that car!
The Krag is in photo above with Clyde holding it.
At least they dressed nice (suit and tie) not like the slob criminals of today.
Ted Hinton and Bob Alcorn reported that each officer was armed with an automatic rifle (presumably a BAR), pistols and shotguns... but I also read the same as you reported elsewhere. In Hinton's report, he stated that they opened up with the automatic rifles, which were emptied before the car even got near them. Prentiss Oakley reportedly fired the first shot (before being ordered to do so), and the rest opened fire. I also read that Oakley's first shot was a fatal head shot to Clyde Barrow... Not bad for shooting at a target in a moving car!
I also knew about the arsenal in the car... but I think the BARs are the interesting items in that car!
The term "automatic rifle" at that period of time was much more likely to have been referring to Remington Model 8s or the various Winchester Self Loaders.Remington marketed their rifles as "autoloading" hence automatics the same way pistols were referred to.A lot of law enforcement back then including the FBI and Texas Rangers used the Remington and Winchester autoloaders.Few if any had BARs as witnessed by Hinton's being borrowed.Kind of surprising none of the LE in the ambush party had a Thompson.By that date any self respecting police and sheriff's dept. would have had at least one.
About the only good analysis of the armament of Hamer's ambush party I've read was in John Henwood's book on the Remington 8 and 81 and there is little agreement among the participants writing years later on who carried what other than Hinton had a BAR and Oakley a Model 8.Even Hamer says in one interview he had a Remington Model 11 and in another a Remington Model 8.Bonnie and Clyde's Krag seems to only show up in that series of pictures with the 32 Ford as a backdrop.Like to know the serial number on that one.I did a little research on Bonnie and Clyde guns sold at auction and it never showed up anywhere.
psteinmayer
07-11-2014, 01:02
If it ever did, and provenance could be established... WOW! Funny thing about those Joplin photos... Bonnie is shown holding a revolver with a cigar clenched in her teeth, and in another, holding a shotgun on Clyde. The reality is, however, that she rarely took part in the robberies, other than occasionally driving the getaway car... and there is no record of her ever shooting anyone!
I love the Bonnie and Clyde story, and one day I'm going to go visit the death car!
When that movie came out in 67 about Bonnie and Clyde their car was taken around the country and shown by whoever owned it at the time.It was in a big enclosed van trailer.They charged admission to see it just like a carney side show.Stopped here,I saw it.Don't remember what the admission was,something like a $1 or so.
psteinmayer
07-12-2014, 05:59
The movie sure does contain a lot of Hollywood fluff! The fascination with them... and their deaths has always been a morbid one for most people sadly. After the ambush, they were not removed from the car, but rather the car was towed in to town to the morticians. When it arrived, people started trying to obtain what ever pieces of them they could - from cutting pieces of Bonnie's dress and hair, to one sick individual trying to remove Clyde's left ear! The mortician and local law thankfully put a stop to it. I only want to see it because I have seen it in photos, and the story intrigues me.
Motorcop
07-12-2014, 11:03
Supposedly the car is on display at Whiskey Pete's Bar and Casino somewhere in Vegas. Years ago it was carted around in a semi trailer to state and county fairs for people to see after paying a fee. I saw it a couple of times but I think the touchy-feely people didn't like it being at the state fair and it left and never returned. I was just a kid when I saw the car the last time and it was in a pretty sad state and didn't look nothing like I expected. They also used to haul around one of Adolf Hitler's big touring cars and had that one display with the B and C Ford.
Rick
psteinmayer
07-12-2014, 12:02
There are several cars that were made to look like the real 34 Ford, and are on display in various locations, but you're correct about the actual car being at Whiskey Pete's in Primm Nevada. It's displayed on the casino floor behind glass, along with the actual shirt Clyde was wearing during the ambush (accompanied by a letter of authenticity). Next trip I take to Vegas, I might just venture out that way...
When that movie came out in 67 about Bonnie and Clyde their car was taken around the country and shown by whoever owned it at the time.It was in a big enclosed van trailer.They charged admission to see it just like a carney side show.Stopped here,I saw it.Don't remember what the admission was,something like a $1 or so.
The movie with Warren Beatty is mostly glamorized junk. By the time Clyde got out of prison in Texas he was a raging homosexual and his relationship with Bonnie was by this time more of a sibling type born of necessity than a romance. Clyde also, as one poster pointed out, died behind the wheel, not rolling around on the ground. The car looks like it has way too many holes in it from a handful of lever actions and a Model 8. Some of the holes are through the windshield and straight out the back of the car so the deputy down the road with the BAR probably made these. The rangers in the movie had Tommy guns....no account of the barrow killing included them but they are easier to shoot blanks with than a 1918 Browning I guess.
Frank Hamer was not the bumbling jerk he is portrayed as in the movies, and he knew how to deal with a bunch of goddamn ballot box stuffers. You know someones a badass when he shows up with just a 1911 in a hip holster and dozens of armed men retreat without him ever having to take it out:
"In 1948 Hamer was called again to Ranger duty to play a small role in a notorious episode in an election acknowledged to have been one of the most corrupt in Texas history.[35][36] Hamer was hired by Governor Coke Stevenson, whose name by now was synonymous with old-school Texan conservative integrity,[37] to accompany him to the Texas State Bank in Alice, the county seat of Jim Wells County in South Texas. Stevenson wanted to examine the tally sheets for ballot box 13, which held ballots for his opponent, then-Representative Lyndon Johnson, he knew were fraudulent, and not in a way that favored him. Outside the bank stood two glowering groups of armed men. Hamer got out of the car. He approached the first group and said, "Git." They did. To the second group blocking the doors of the bank he said, "Fall back." They did.[38] In the end, Johnson won the election and went on to win the Presidency Of The United States."
psteinmayer
07-25-2014, 03:09
Clyde did die behind the wheel. The established reports of those involved state that the first shot (fired before the command to fire was given) was a head shot which killed Clyde instantly.
Frank Hamer was not the bumbling jerk he is portrayed as in the movies
Nope,neither were any of the others.Tough looking bunch-
http://galleryplus.ebayimg.com/ws/web/171197201234_1_0_1/1000x1000.jpg
This one's a little better than the Warren Beatty version, although Holliday Grainger is far more beautiful than Bonnie really was. At least they have a couple of BARs, but the couldnt even even find a pre-war model 12 shotgun , and the rangers have Series 70 Colts? Well, I'm a stickler, dammit.
http://www.aetv.com/bonnie-and-clyde/video/the-end-of-bonnie-and-clyde
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.