Army Wants a Harder-Hitting Pistol

[Rock]

Army Wants a Harder-Hitting Pistol

Jul 03, 2014 | by Matthew Cox

The U.S. Army is moving forward to replace the Cold War-era M9 9mm pistol with a more powerful handgun that also meets the needs of the other services.
As the lead agent for small arms, the Army will hold an industry day July 29 to talk to gun makers about the joint, Modular Handgun System or MHS.
The MHS would replace the Army's inventory of more than 200,000 outdated M9 pistols and several thousand M11 9mm pistols with one that has greater accuracy, lethality, reliability and durability

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/07/03/army-wants-a-harder-hitting-pistol.html

[Tuna]

Well they sure are not going to find anything new that is magic. If they feel the nine is not good (and they will not get the dropping of the 9 past NATO) and the .45 is not good then what is left? The .40 S&W? It's being dropped by police departments left and right as it's not what they thought it would be and not any better then the 9 or .45. What they might have to do is get away from the 124 gr. bullets in the 9 and increase the velocity by using a lighter bullet like the 115 gr. or a 110 gr.

[ignats]

38 Super?

[Johnny P]

Over 100 years ago U.S. Ordnance decided that the 9mm was not what they needed, and the .45 served them well for 75 years as the main battle pistol. The old quote “Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it” seems to apply here.

[usmc69]

This is a case of OptiRectumitis................they powers to be have their hears up their A$$es.

[Ken Hill]

This is a case of OptiRectumitis................they powers to be have their hears up their A$$es.

Absolutely correct AJ ... I have an M9 marked pistol I never shot, I have plenty of mags I've never loaded. Wanna bet they'll look to the .40 and not return to the 1911!

[Tuna]

The only way they can drop the 9mm is if NATO agrees to do so and they are not about to do that as the cost will be too much for quite a few of the countries now members of NATO. And what new pistol are they trying to reinvent now? They tried the poly guns and found them wanting. They tried the stainless and regular steel framed guns and found them too heavy. Oh wait maybe the hard to find all ceramic gun? Right now it just doesn't make sense but then again it's the US military right? Oh and they recently gave Beretta another order for thousands of more new M9 pistols. Hey isn't our liberal Vice Pres bobble head from Maryland? Seems that Beretta has seen the light and is moving out of Maryland and I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the new gun idea? Naw, just a crazy thought.

[SMOKEY]

Stupidest mistake we ever made to go to a pop gun when we had a hand cannon. Waste of ammo to shoot half a dozen times when one fmj in .45 acp will do just fine. Lots of German and Japanese dead to attest to this.

[Art]

Stupidest mistake we ever made to go to a pop gun when we had a hand cannon. Waste of ammo to shoot half a dozen times when one fmj in .45 acp will do just fine. Lots of German and Japanese dead to attest to this.

There was no need to adopt a new pistol 30 years ago, it was a sweetheart deal with the Italians (read that political deal.) The caliber thing was always bogus. We had everybody in NATO go to 7.62x51mm in rifle cartridges and didn't let that stop us when we went to 5.56x45mm. The biggest problem I found with the .45 auto cartridge in the M1911 platform was that most of the men who carried it were afraid of it, not conducive to accurate shooting.

If full metal jacket ammunition has to be used a bigger bullet makes a bigger hole. That doesn't make the .45 auto a hand cannon but it does make it more effective than a 9mm unless you have to shoot through something. Once you have to shoot through something any bullet that goes through it is better than a bullet that doesn't. The fact is that body armor has made pistols almost irrelevant if an adversary is wearing it. The .45 auto is just more irrelevant. Mention was made of the 7.62x25mm Tokarev. This round will penetrate a threat level III vest however it is even less effective as a "stopping cartridge" in its F.M.J. mode than the 9mm.

Generally the .45 Auto in FMJ mode has a record of about 75% one shot stops in civilian shootings. For the 9mm parabellum that drops to about 65% with FMJ ammo. In civilian shootings a lot of those are what are called psychological stops meaning the fellow who has been shot could continue to resist but doesn't because, well, he's been shot. Soldiers are much more likely to continue to fight after having been shot than civilians.

I mostly believe in carrying the most powerful pistol you can master for defense and that's because no pistols are "cannons" of any type and there is no handgun cartridge shot from an autopistol that I'd consider appropriate to shoot any animal much bigger than a jackrabbit. As far as I'm concerned pistols in modern combat are almost irrelevant except for special operators.

An F.B.I. analysis I basically agree with: http://www.thegunzone.com/quantico-wounding.html

[pmclaine]

With my tin foil hat firmly in place i posted this on the other related thread......

The Army just bought all new slides and replacement parts some few years ago when this speculation was last put to bed.

What I think may be different this time is that Beretta was very outspoken concerning any new firearms legislation and they even went so far as to change the location of a new manufacturing plant from a 2A unfriendly state to a 2A friendly state.

I dont like the M9 but if politics has any role in a firearms replacement I may buy one.