Would apprecisate help IDing a type 2? Remington Rand

[SloopJohnB]

I own a nice Remington Rand 1911A1, serial #1021615, and am trying to confirm exactly what I have. It appears to have a type 2 slide, finish on everything seems to be original and a good match indicating the parts have been together a long time. All the components seem to be correct per Clawson's book. I'm confused because the serial # seems to be just outside the range for type 2 slides, the slide stop is serrated rather than checkered, and the serial # prefix is "NO" rather than "No."
My 1911 knowledge is weak, and I would like to know if I have a legit type 2, or if someone just put a type 2 slide on a later frame. I'm hoping that some of you long time 1911 folks (Scott, Johnny etc.) can help.
Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks,
John

[Johnny P]

Digital photos are not good at representing true color. Does the pistol appear to have a Du-Lite blue or a phosphate finish?

[SloopJohnB]

Johnny, I've never been good at being able to tell DuLite from Parkerizing, but I'm guessing this one is DuLite. I looked at it side by side with my RR #1299858 which is definitely parkerized, and there is a slight difference in the finish. #1021615 that I'm inquiring about does seem to have the faintest hint of blue under direct sun light as well as under a "white" (5000K) photo lamp.
I realize that photos are a far cry from in person. I did attach a couple of new pics I took under direct light in case they help at all.
Thanks again for you efforts.

[Johnny P]

Look at the top of the receiver in the area of the disconnector. On the Du-Lite blue guns this area will not be sandblasted and will be blue.

[SloopJohnB]

The flat surface where the disconnector sticks out of the receiver seems like it could be blued, but it's not obvious to me. It is approximately the same color as the hammer which is definitely blued. I think what's throwing me (besides lack of experience with these finishes) is the rougher/machine/tool marks on that flat surface look slightly different compared to the smoother finish on the hammer. Based on some slight burnishing in the ordnance stamp, however, I'm virtually certain this receiver has never been re-finished.
Wish I could be more helpful.

[SloopJohnB]

Anyone out there have any thoughts/comments on this that might help me with this one?

[ignats]

I think Johnny P answered your question regarding the finish. Why not show a picture of the top of the receiver?

[KeithNyst]

Look at the top of the receiver in the area of the disconnector. On the Du-Lite blue guns this area will not be sandblasted and will be blue.

Like this one Johnny? I think it is du-lite, 1016xxx.


http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy263/KeithNyst/43%20Rem-Rand%20Type%20II/2-2topofreceiver800x600.jpg (http://s798.photobucket.com/user/KeithNyst/media/43%20Rem-Rand%20Type%20II/2-2topofreceiver800x600.jpg.html)

[SloopJohnB]

Thanks again for the input gentlemen. I tend to think this one has the Dulite finish, but can't tell for sure due to some vision issues I have following a small stroke. Confusing though since the serial #, and the "NO" serial # seems a bit late for a type 2 Dulite. In any case, it's a nice pistol, and I appreciate the assistance.

[Johnny P]

This is the top of the receiver of a Type I approximately 1160 into production. This photo shows the color very close to the actual color.

http://i61.tinypic.com/30sijwm.jpg

[SloopJohnB]

OK, I'm finally convinced it's a Dulite finish. Thanks to Keith & Johnny's photos, and a side by side comparison with a friend's RR #129xxxx, I 'm about as certain as I can be that the bluish tint is apparent when next to the parkerized finish. I'd appreciate further comments if the attached photos help. Mine (Dulite) is left hand/bottom pistol in the pics.
Serial # 1021615 seems a bit late for a type 2 Dulite, but that's all I can come up with.
Again, I appreciate the assistance you folks have given.

[SloopJohnB]

Sorry, meant to include this photo as well.

[Scott Gahimer]

The finish may be a chemical (salt) blue, similar to Du-Lite, but possibly a refinish. I can't really tell from the photos. It would require looking at the pistol in-hand to say one way or the other. Sometimes glare in the markings makes them appear to be struck through the finish, when actually they are not. Bare feed ramps are one indicator of original finish, but any good restoration gunsmith can properly remove finish from a feed ramp. There are a lot of things to look at, in-hand, to authenticate finish. But online, with photos, that's nearly impossible.

1018522 is, IIRC, the highest serial numbered type 2 slide original Du-Lite blue finish Remington Rand I've examined. If the slide is original to the receiver, Du-Lite is a possibility, as most (if not all) type 2 slide pistols were originally Du-Lite. If the slide and receiver have been mated up after the fact, welll...??

NO. serial number prefixes indicate the serial number was originally applied after the finish was applied. When I spoke with you yesterday, you indicated the Ordnance Acceptance crossed cannons appeared to show burnished metal...but the serial number didn't.

It takes a relatively keen eye and some experience to say with confidence, one way or the other, in some cases. In the end, everything should add up and there should be consistency in the markings and when they were applied.

The other thing I mentioned to you yesterday was that most late Remington Rand pistols with Du-Lite receivers and slides, after ca. s/n 1000000, have a mixture of blued and Parkerized small parts. I own and show several such examples on my web site. I don't see a mixture of Parkerized parts on your pistol, in the photos provided. Remington Rand was switching over from Du-Lite to Parkerized only at the time this pistol was produced. The later the serial number, typically the more Parkerized small parts you'll see on the pistols. 1015499 has a good many Parked parts, including even Parkerized grip screws. Same is true of many others I own or have examined. That is another key reason I suggest the finish my not, in fact, be original. Hope that helps.

[SloopJohnB]

Thank you again, Scott. Your observations and comments are concise and have been quite helpful. I realize the difficulty of dealing with online photos, which can't be anywhere near as useful as a hands on inspection. Appreciate you trying your best, however.
I enjoyed talking with you, and only wished you lived closer.
Best regards,
John