Anybody ever seen a H&R M-16A1 Government marked lower?

[RED]

Most folks think these things may have existed, but, none were ever available for civilian use.

Question, have you ever seen one?

[Michael Tompkins]

I saw one when I was in the service. I was with the 503rd MP Co in Friedberg, FRG. One of our guys was issued one. 1980 time-frame. At the time, it stood out because the lower receiver was a purple-ish color for whatever reason. Perhaps it had been rebuilt. Mike

[gwp]

There are pictures on AR15.com.

http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=6&f=23&t=427400

[lyman]

Most folks think these things may have existed, but, none were ever available for civilian use.

Question, have you ever seen one?

wasn't the H&R a gov't contract?? thus none for civilian (or LEO?) purchase..

[PhillipM]

There is info at retroblackrifles.com


Harrington and Richardson also made at least 246,000 M16A1 rifles during Vietnam.
H&R's one known contract started November 1968 and ended April 1970.
*More info is currently being researched (Dec 2009)

http://bpullignwolnet.dotster.com/retroblackrifle/images/H_and_R_M16-2.jpg

http://bpullignwolnet.dotster.com/retroblackrifle/images/H_and_R_M16.jpg

[bd1]

Sweeet!

[Hal O'Peridol]

I was issued one while stationed at Ft. Devens, MA back in 1983.

[Truman]

Our local NG unit had many H&Rs A1s. Probably more H&R than Colt. Truman

[tbone69]

I saw one while stationed at KMCAS, BLT 2/3. 1980 time frame. most of what we had were GM Hydra-matic and Colt XM16E1's

[fjruple]

I was issued an H&R at Ft. Knox in the summer of 1972. I remember it being a bit rougher looking than the Colts we had in the company.

--fjruple

[Greg]

I was issued an H&R M16A1 at Ft. Knox, Kentucky while attending the ROTC Basic Summer Camp (2 year program). Actually, I believe it was marked XM16E1, but that was a long time and many M16s/AR15s ago. The one thing I remember with great clarity is that it was amazingly accurate. And that we cleaned the barrels (per the instructions of our Drill Sergeant) with the bore brush on the end of a bunch of sections of cleaning rod chucked into a power drill.

[smle-man]

I saw many H&Rs, Colts, and GM Hydramatic made A1 lowers in my service time

[smle-man]

When did you do the Ft. Knox 2 year basic summer camp? I was there in the summer of 1975. SFC Hendricks and SSG Blackmon were my two drill sergeants. We didn't the cleaning rod and drill method but we did immerse the complete upper group sans handguards in 55 gallon drums cut in half and mounted horizontally and filled with solvent. It just about peeled the skin off of my hands.

[fjruple]

When did you do the Ft. Knox 2 year basic summer camp? I was there in the summer of 1975. SFC Hendricks and SSG Blackmon were my two drill sergeants. We didn't the cleaning rod and drill method but we did immerse the complete upper group sans handguards in 55 gallon drums cut in half and mounted horizontally and filled with solvent. It just about peeled the skin off of my hands.

smle-man--

I was there in the Summer of 1972, SFC Hendricks was there as the Fourth Platoon Sgt. I was in the Third Platoon with SFC Booth. The unit was C Company, 13th Battation 4th Brigade. Fate would intervene and I would not complete ROTC due to family issues. I enlisted in the PA NG in 1975 and then went to OCS at Ft. Benning, GA. And as they says the rest is history. I MRDed with 30 years in 2005.

I remember the cleaning in the 55 gallon drum halfs. That Summer Camp I fell in love with the M16A1 rifle. I alway felt the M16A2s were unnecessarily too heavy.

--fjruple

[smle-man]

smle-man--

I was there in the Summer of 1972, SFC Hendricks was there as the Fourth Platoon Sgt. I was in the Third Platoon with SFC Booth. The unit was C Company, 13th Battation 4th Brigade. Fate would intervene and I would not complete ROTC due to family issues. I enlisted in the PA NG in 1975 and then went to OCS at Ft. Benning, GA. And as they says the rest is history. I MRDed with 30 years in 2005.

I remember the cleaning in the 55 gallon drum halfs. That Summer Camp I fell in love with the M16A1 rifle. I alway felt the M16A2s were unnecessarily too heavy.

--fjruple

Well how about that! Our rotation was the last for SFC Hendricks. His next stop was a tour in Korea and then out. What a character! I remember his saying something to the effect of 'we are no longer permitted to strike recruits; however by the time I am finished with you, you will wish that I did so and got it over with'. I got commissioned in 1977 at Pitt and spent 5 years on active duty and 15 in the Guard and Reserve. I then served another 11 in the State Defense Force (CA Military Reserve) here in California.

Good times, thanks for sharing.

[Andouille]

Genuine H&R and US Property marked M16A1 here:

http://www.autoweapons.com/photosn/photosdec04/880m16.html

[tshaw]

I was issued three M16s during my time in the Army, a Colt, Hydra-Matic and H&R. I also remember the half drum cleaning during basic. During our final weapons inspection everyone was crowded around the drum fighting over space and cleaning rods trying to get out of there. The D.I's kept rejecting all rifles and sending them back for more cleaning, I got tired of waiting for space around the drum so I went into the barracks and turn the water on as hot as it would go took my rifle apart and ran it thru the hot water at full force, oiled her up and took her to the arms room, got a compliment from from the D.I. in charge on such a clean weapon. I just waved goodbye to all the guys huddled around the drum as I left!
Terry

[jonnyo55]

The rifle pictured in Andouille's post shows no serial number in the expected place, while the rifle pictured in the earlier post has a three digit (208?) number, which seems too low for a rifle of that era. Did H&R's lack receiver serial numbers, or were they located in a different place? After the M1903 numbering fiasco (SA and RIA rifles sharing the same number), I doubt whether H&R would have been permitted to start at zero...

[fjruple]

The rifle pictured in Andouille's post shows no serial number in the expected place, while the rifle pictured in the earlier post has a three digit (208?) number, which seems too low for a rifle of that era. Did H&R's lack receiver serial numbers, or were they located in a different place? After the M1903 numbering fiasco (SA and RIA rifles sharing the same number), I doubt whether H&R would have been permitted to start at zero...

jonnyo55--

It looks like someone photoshopped out the serial number in the picture. The serial number should be in the same place as with the Colts. I saw the mil spec drawing for markings of the M16A1 and the serial number should be under the Caliber 5.56mm marking. I believe the H&R M16A1 was assigned the 2,000,000 serial number range with 2,220,000 being the highest known serial. The GM Hydromatic Division was assigned the 3,000,000 serial number range. I believe not all of the 3,000,000 serial number range was used as well.

--fjruple

[smle-man]

Not rare at all.

[noslack327]

297th Mi phoenix az in the 1980's all of ours were H&R's

[noslack327]

When I was at Fort Devens in 1969 we still had M14's, Company C 18th Eng Bn (CBT).

[ElWoodman]

We had two at Marine Barracks USNS Roosevelt Roads, PR.

[parrirc]

I was issued a HRA M16A1 in 1975 at Ft. Knox, KY. I was attending ROTC Basic Camp. Weapon was loose between the upper and lower receivers. No telling how many times that weapon was issued and rebuilt before being issued to me. Weapon shot OK but I have shot many M16s in later years that shot better. I'm sure it was due to wear from much use. However that weapon never failed to function when fired. I retired out of the USAR with over 28 good years in 2008. Enjoyed the posts.

[GA-Dave]

Here's one:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=522347813

[westgard]

There are actually a few of these that are legally in the hands of private citizens as fully transferable MG's. They came out of the H&R bankruptcy when they sold off their museum collection. There were some M16s as well as M14s that were sold. They went to a Class III dealer named RJ Perry, and then were sold off. The one on gunbroker may be one of these, however, there are also some legal rewelds that were made that while expensive, would not command the same price that an original museum gun would.

[RED]

There are actually a few of these that are legally in the hands of private citizens as fully transferable MG's. They came out of the H&R bankruptcy when they sold off their museum collection. There were some M16s as well as M14s that were sold. They went to a Class III dealer named RJ Perry, and then were sold off. The one on gunbroker may be one of these, however, there are also some legal rewelds that were made that while expensive, would not command the same price that an original museum gun would.

It is interesting that this thread is still alive. All the H&R rifles pictured in these posts are different than the one I owned for over 15 years. The one from Gunbroker just doesn't look quite right, especially for a new, never issued, never fired weapon. The one with the low serial number is likely a REWAT. No serial number? That one would have never been allowed into the registry without one. Oh, BTW the guy that said they are common, is not correct.

My rifle was a VERY good reweld. So good that at the Knob Creek shoot, some of the class III elite challanged me to proove it was a reweld instead of asking me to proove it was real! The only non technical way to do that was to remove the pistol grip which reveadled ten tiny letters, "J.STOEMPLE." I transferred the lower to my son in 2008. He sold it in 2012 for $20k plus. Not bad for a piece I bought for $1,200.

[westgard]

That is actually a great price IMHO that you got for the gun. I agree, if we are talking about transferable H&R M16's, they are rare as hen's teeth. The military probably have/had oodles of them kicking around though...

[Fred Pillot]

A buddy did a sun fade test on some black anodizing. After a year of hanging outside it was definitely purple.

[Weez556]

We had many H&R M-16A1's in my unit back in the 1990's . Mine was not mine was a Hydra-Matic Div.GM Corp. Wish I had a photo of that.

[oldtirediron]

H & R Had many M-16 rifles stored in their factory with no serialization, the story I was told that during their contract with the US Government a bunch of rifles were rejected for various problems that were non-repairable to the lower receiver. Some of the museum guns had broken rear trigger guard tabs, others had front pins that were broken, ETC., all came out of the museum, with defect tags on them. I know for a fact that the damaged M-16's were repaired for commercial sales , as well as the M-14's and the Rare R-14's that were sold out of the museum. The M-16 rifles with no serials were numbered by H&R to replace damaged M-16's returned because of the defects-- The three digit serial number M-16 was hand stamped at H& R for them to sell it. If you could see the original sales form it would say 1975 and H&R M-16. I personally worked on a lot of the H&R Museum guns that were owned By R.J.Perry--- If you need any questions answered PM me please !

[Fred]

Most folks think these things may have existed, but, none were ever available for civilian use.

Question, have you ever seen one?

Yes, Ft. Knox in 1977 and Ft. Irwin in 81-83

[Randy A]

As late as 1995 I ran across A1's made by H&R, Turbo Hydramatic Div of Gen Motors, Colt, Battel and a fifth one that only had "Contract N0. xxxx" or "Mfr." I don't remember the numbers but it was a bit odd. My favorite was the GM, but by 1998 I believe all the A1s were gone. I shot on several rifle teams so I got to try them all....those were the days.