Mint Army made in 1912 from the Donald O. Sutherland Collection

[gbethu]

This mint piece was sold in the late 1970's when The Sutherland collection was auctioned off. Two long time collector's later, I now own it...I hope for a long time.

[joem]

So Very Nice! Wish I owned it!!!

[Duane Hansen]

A real Beauty Gordon. Thanks for sharing the pictures. Duane

[Tommy2guns]

Okay, now you are just showing off. Nice one....

[Mike Josephic]

Care to share the serial number? I'd like to compare it to few I have.

[Nubber]

That is a beauty. I have one shipped in Dec. 1912, but no where near that nice. That one is a prize.

[Fred]

Really nice! Thanks for sharing!!

[PhillipM]

Thanks for sharing your collection. I always enjoy nice originals.

[gbethu]

serial number 14911. last shipment 1912.

[Shooter5]

Wow, gorgeous. Where was the shipment? I wonder how it avoided being "rode hard" as GI's typically treat their equipment.

[Duane Hansen]

Wow, gorgeous. Where was the shipment? I wonder how it avoided being "rode hard" as GI's typically treat their equipment.

Probably found it's way into someones sock drawer very early in it's life, if you know what I mean.....

[Scott Gahimer]

14911 was shipped 23 November. There were 5 more 1912 shipments after that, all in Dec.

[gbethu]

Wow, gorgeous. Where was the shipment? I wonder how it avoided being "rode hard" as GI's typically treat their equipment.

As I said, the pistol was in the last block of pistols, serial numbers 13501 to 17250 delivered in 1912. They spread out the number of boxes as they were produced and sent as it's probably difficult to ship the entire order of 3,750 in the same crate.
I don't know the day it was made either but Clawson"s info from his small collector's guide was all I had with me. As was mentioned, exact dates are available in his "big booK" so the earlier info provided would be more precise.
It's always a mystery how 1911s produced in the same time period survived until today with wide ranges in condition. I like the earlier "sock drawer" comment or possibly issued to a staff officer who rarely removed it from it box. I own an unfired, original Ithaca from WWII that remains in the original box, two wrapped extra magazines and original Holster and belt. All issued to a Navy Dentist on Guam...go figure . Not a likely spot for an invasion in last days of the war in 1945.

Whatever the reason, this gun dodged the bullet and has had careful owners all it's life. It still does. gb

[5MadFarmers]

It's always a mystery how 1911s produced in the same time period survived until today with wide ranges in condition.

Officers were permitted to purchase arms. In fact they were expected to. Those were personal property.

If you'd like to see it show up elsewhere, WW2 uniforms are a good compare. Enlisted uniforms were issued. When the GI turned it in it was re-issued. I have some trousers with no less than 5 different laundry stamps inside. Officer uniforms were private purchase. One user.

Officers typically had pistols. Thus private purchase is more common with them. They could also buy rifles and those pop up from time to time but are rare. I looked at a 3-digit Krag rifle once. Still in the officer's family.

[gbethu]

Officers were permitted to purchase arms. In fact they were expected to. Those were personal property.

If you'd like to see it show up elsewhere, WW2 uniforms are a good compare. Enlisted uniforms were issued. When the GI turned it in it was re-issued. I have some trousers with no less than 5 different laundry stamps inside. Officer uniforms were private purchase. One user.

Officers typically had pistols. Thus private purchase is more common with them. They could also buy rifles and those pop up from time to time but are rare. I looked at a 3-digit Krag rifle once. Still in the officer's family.



Thanks,
I was an enlisted man in the Navy for 9 1/2 years and then an officer for 10 1/2 years. Being an officer was definitely much better.....I was issued many uniforms when I enlisted and later given a monthly uniform allowance to keep it updated....when commissioned, you bought your own uniforms ....but you also got a raise !!!!!
Afer enlisting, I was trained as an airplane avionics mechanic . Over the years I worked up to becoming a Chief Petty Officer, Warrant Officer, CWO and Lieutentant with an Aviation Maintenance Duty Only designator. I only fired M-1s when in training. My only "combat" was when were under a rocket attack in 1969 while I was in DaNang in 1969....a 1911 would not have been much help although it may have just made me feel better.
A long time collector and member on this chat board , Aviation Chief Petty Officer John Holbrook can tell you how a M1911 saved his life when in Viet Nam. He's a real hero.
I thought that's why I chose the Navy vs USMC or Army, to avoid getting shot. Worked out for me. I can assure you had I been in one of those services I would have purchased my own 1911.

[5MadFarmers]

My duty weapon was that awful little .38 - the "M15." An issue weapon should be something that one has faith in. I had zero in that thing. The SF types we worked with promissed me they'd bring an extra M16 if it came to that.

When the Army received the pistols they were simply tools. Enlisted troops with crew serviced weapons often received them. Those would be passed down again and again. Being rebuilt repeatedly. Others served as qualification weapons being shot daily - hard wear.

When Officers purchased them the wear patterns vary even within that group. A finance officer would likely have one seeing a lot of holster wear as he went through his routine. Air crew also likely would put a lot of holster wear on them.

For Officers in sundry staff positions the pistol was more uniform decoration. Very rarely worn.

I attended an estate sale many years ago. In addition to bad art and expensive furniture there was a uniform and a Remington-Rand in the box. I took it. Looking around at the rest of the estate it painted a picture of a semi-refined gentleman sitting in his den in front of the fireplace drinking from a delicate glass which his wife insisted on using a coaster under. The pistol likely sat in the closet with his wife referring to it as "that pistol George brought back from the war."

My uncle had the same situation. His pistol was an ETO capture. Sat in the holster in the closet for decades until he passed on.

They're out there.

[Andouille]

John Holbrook's story, and it's a good one:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/legends/serious.htm

It was on Culver's for a while but was gone from here last time I looked for it, or perhaps I'm just insufficiently technically literate to have found it.

[gbethu]

John Holbrook is so straight forward with that story...not boasting, just relating a near brush with death, keeping his head and, utilizing his shooting skills learned with a 1911 long before he joined the Navy.
We served together in Heavy Attack Squadron Eleven in 1960 and 1961 aboard the USS F D Rooseveldt, CVA-42.. He was one of a mere handful of enlisted men choosen in the Navy for training as a Bombardier. All others were commissioned officers. I was one of the the mechanics for that equipment so had frequent interface with him...mostly discussing troubles with malfunctioning equipment. Needless to add, he was a favorite of the enlisted men of the squadron and "one of us". We were all "high fiving " when John outscored every crew in aerial bombing marksmanship .He beat every officer bombardier in achieving more bulls eyes to the target. Not only was he a crack shot with an M1911, he was a crack bombing marksman with the Douglas A3D airplane, the largest bomber used aboard an aircraft carrier.

Later in Vietnam He was wounded twice (two purple heart medals) and awarded a silver star for valor in saving the men he worked with at a risk of his own life. I'm proud to have him for a friend...plus, he's forgotten more than I'll ever know about the 1911.
If you ever meet him, you just gotta love him.

[stan4]

John Holbrook is so straight forward with that story...not boasting, just relating a near brush with death, keeping his head and, utilizing his shooting skills learned with a 1911 long before he joined the Navy.
We served together in Heavy Attack Squadron Eleven in 1960 and 1961 aboard the USS F D Rooseveldt, CVA-42.. He was one of a mere handful of enlisted men choosen in the Navy for training as a Bombardier. All others were commissioned officers. I was one of the the mechanics for that equipment so had frequent interface with him...mostly discussing troubles with malfunctioning equipment. Needless to add, he was a favorite of the enlisted men of the squadron and "one of us". We were all "high fiving " when John outscored every crew in aerial bombing marksmanship .He beat every officer bombardier in achieving more bulls eyes to the target. Not only was he a crack shot with an M1911, he was a crack bombing marksman with the Douglas A3D airplane, the largest bomber used aboard an aircraft carrier.

Later in Vietnam He was wounded twice (two purple heart medals) and awarded a silver star for valor in saving the men he worked with at a risk of his own life. I'm proud to have him for a friend...plus, he's forgotten more than I'll ever know about the 1911.
If you ever meet him, you just gotta love him.

gbethu,

"If you ever meet him, you just gotta love him." Yes, Always a Gentleman, helpful and very kind.

Best Regards,

[Andouille]

Later in Vietnam He was wounded twice (two purple heart medals) and awarded a silver star for valor in saving the men he worked with at a risk of his own life.

Was not aware of that, nor of his bomber marksmanship. I find it remarkable, although not surprising. It is inherently obvious that the man had to be something special to be an enlisted man in an officer's game. Mr. Holbrook favored me with some good advice a couple - three times on the old Culver forum, which advice was greatly appreciated at the time, and still is. Kinda miss him around here, a lot. He always said that "nobody has more fun than me" and I for one believe it was well earned.

[Tudorp]

Nice. Nicer than mine but here is my early colt. 1914 serial Colt Navy frame. Remington Rand slide. This one is told to have served in WWI as an M1911, and then served again in WWII in the A1 configuration. The parkerized finish looks too nice really and I think it was probably restored/refinished post war, but still love it.

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff490/Tudorp/M1911A1/M1911A1_zps0b10949d.jpg

[Duane Hansen]

Nice. Nicer than mine but here is my early colt. 1914 serial Colt Navy frame. Remington Rand slide. This one is told to have served in WWI as an M1911, and then served again in WWII in the A1 configuration. The parkerized finish looks too nice really and I think it was probably restored/refinished post war, but still love it.

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff490/Tudorp/M1911A1/M1911A1_zps0b10949d.jpg

Your pistol is a 1911 and will never be a 1911A1. It has a Type II RR slide and some other late parts but that does not make it an A1.

The pistol has been scrubbed on hard and parkerized. The sights are later non-military pieces. It looks as though someone put the pistol together as a BullsEye shooter. It may have been refinished and went through a rebuild while it was still in Military hands but it was most likely Buffed Hard after it came into civilian hands.

[Tudorp]

Yep, thats why I think it was probably refinished post war due to the hard buffed edges, and stampings. The stampings are all still there, but faint, especially the rearsenal inspector stamp, but there is "enough" of it still visible to distinguish it. I also know the sights aren't correct. Sucks I can't turn back time or undo previous owner sins, but it's still a gun.. ;)

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff490/Tudorp/M1911A1/arsenalMark1_zps15b0fab3.jpg

[Duane Hansen]

Well that's right, but they are all good......some are just better......

[SPEEDGUNNER]

In a word - BEAUTIFUL