Krag Canvas Breech cover?

[rayg]

As long as I've been posting on the Krag thread lately, might as well add/ask this question. Is this a Krag cover or a 1917 Enfield one. It fits both but I see the Enfield ones have snaps and are dated. This one has no date. I always assumed it was for the Krag and had it on mine for years but then I realized it has the profile on top that looks like it was made to fit over the ears on the Enfield.
Wondering too if the 42 written under the Co B, could be a regt. number or a rack/rifle number. Ray

Added 9/25, Disregard the way the cover is shown on the Enfield, found out the extended canvas goes over/on the trigger guard not over the sight ears.

[browningautorifle]

The protective ears shape on top says it's for the M1917 or P14...

[Dick Hosmer]

That is an accessory I've never owned, but are not the Krag ones marked "Place over cocking piece" or similar?

Perhaps similar wording is used on others? I also have to say that, until yesterday, I thought such items were unique to the Krag - but, learn something every day!!

[browningautorifle]

They've made action covers for just about everything...

[5MadFarmers]

As long as I've been posting on the Krag thread lately, might as well add/ask this question. Is this a Krag cover

Yes.


or a 1917 Enfield one.

Question unclear. There is a distinction.

The US had an action cover during WW1 with snaps. That was for the M-1903 (Springfield) and M-1917 (Enfield).
The Brits had an action cover for the SMLE.

Both of those later two have snaps. The Brit one I have has the "broad arrow" marking and is dated to WW2. The US WW1 ones I have retain maker marks and year stamping. There were various makers.

[rayg]

It's US as it has Rock Island Arsenal Stamp and also the "Place over cocking piece" stamp but no stamped date. If you look closely at the photo you can see the stamps.

PS, just noticed it has inspectors initials C.E.K. stamped on it. When did that inspector work at RI?

Another PS, If I would have just got off my butt I could have looked in Poyer's Krag book to find the answer. He says it's for the Krag and the two canvas protrusions are on the bottom and fit over the trigger guard of the Krag and not on top for the 17 Enfield ears. You know I apparently knew that back when I displayed it on the Krag but forgot and when I took it of the rifle recently after it was on there for years, I didn't pay attention that they were covering the TG. Not only must I learn once, but once again. Is there no hope for me?

[5MadFarmers]

PS, just noticed it has inspectors initials C.E.K. stamped on it. When did that inspector work at RI?


Not an inspector. Need closeup of the stamp. Obviously it's not Henry Kelsey (HEK) as the first letter is a C. Kelsey was an inspector and shows up on lot of the leather. I suspect it's Krieger.

Longer version...

If they were an inspector of any type or a harness maker I can tell you when they were there. A big grid with the people running down the side and their job running sideway through the years. I have that for SA also with both being a lot of work. I also have work rosters for private makers during the CW but, again, that was a lot of work.

For RIA if they're not an inspector or harness worker it's harder. For SA I just did everybody. Rock Island Arsenal was much bigger. A lot more people. So I skipped anyone not a harness maker or inspector of various flavors.

That doesn't mean I can't ID them as I can. What it does mean is they're not in the table. Thus I'd have to walk the civil service hiring report abstracts. Which is very painful.

So if it's Krieger it's easy. Depends on that middle initial. If it's not Krieger it's hard.

It's hard because I just did a sample of the long term RIA workers for that initial set. No hit.

So if it's not Krieger it's a temporary worker. They hired a lot of people as a result of the war. They weren't there long. Thus a lot of names to walk.

I won't say it's not interesting information as it is. What I'm saying is the volume is large. Springfield had 3818 workers in 1942. 5136 in 1944. Rock Island was bigger. Granted 1903 isn't 1942 but the numbers aren't small.

During WW1, at the end, there were 2296 ordnance department inspectors total. That's just inspectors.

So big numbers when we include workers. Given those initials aren't an inspector they're either a harness maker or sewing machine operator. Krieger was the only harness maker with initials which qualify. Depending on that middle initial. If it's not Krieger it's a sewing machine operator. Which means walking everybody as it's not segregated by job.

That's a lot of work. I know this as I did it multiple times to cull out the inspectors and harness makers.

[rayg]

This is the best the camera will do

[5MadFarmers]

I'm going with Krieger. Charles Krieger. Harness Maker. Tracked him there from 1903 to 1919. He might have been there earlier.

Born in Peoria, 1873. Started at RIA somewhere between 1900 and 1903.

[Shooter5]

You need to publish. Hurry up quick like; I/we aint gonna live forever. :)

[5MadFarmers]

You need to publish. Hurry up quick like; I/we aint gonna live forever. :)

The Krag book will be pretty soon. I know, been saying that for a while. I have all the guns now.

The other stuff won't be for a while. Must process all the data first. Must collect all the stuff also. Then use the data to ID and diagram the stuff. Lots of data. Lots of stuff. We'll start with breech covers.....

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g1.png

Action covers. 1 Brit. The rest Krag or the WW1 cover.

[5MadFarmers]

Left to right: US WW1 (4 snaps), WW2 Brit, Krag.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g2.png

[5MadFarmers]

Mills loop belts. Box full.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g3.png

[5MadFarmers]

Eagle snap belts. The wife likes those.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g4.png

[5MadFarmers]

Some Eagle snap and some RIA round canteens. Including one of the early square flap.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g5.png

[5MadFarmers]

RIA and earlier meat cans. 1872 is in the safe.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g6.png

[5MadFarmers]

Cups, bacon cans, condiment cans. Including a USMC bacon can.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g7.png

[5MadFarmers]

Leather gunk. Under there are more layers.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g8.png

[5MadFarmers]

Latest stuff to arrive. It'll be boxed.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g9.png

[5MadFarmers]

Small boxes are field gear.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g10.png

[5MadFarmers]

Bolos and stuff like that.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g11.png

[5MadFarmers]

Bipods and some signal corps CS units on top. Wire cutters in lower layers. Including the WW1 with the rubber handles intact. Every model of cutter.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g12.png

[5MadFarmers]

Flags, shovels, and picks. Four pre-1910 shovel carriers with pre-war shovels in them.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g13.png

[5MadFarmers]

Sleeping bags and mountain tents. Those won't remain like that as they're going in big boxes. Many already have as have the WW2 hammocks.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g14.png

[5MadFarmers]

Shhhh. They're sleeping. Bits and pieces of Krags out for the book. Many undressed. The previous stuff was in bedroom #1. This is #2. Normally I keep this one gunk free for company.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g16.png

[5MadFarmers]

Bedroom #3. Bigger one. "Media room." Except it's has Krag stuff scattered around. Need to finish book to clean it.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g17.png

[5MadFarmers]

Every nook and cranny.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g18.png

[5MadFarmers]

I do mean every nook and cranny.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g19.png

[5MadFarmers]

Where the guns are supposed to be. The cave.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g20.png

[5MadFarmers]

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g24.png

Ordnance notes, memoranda, ordnance reports, etc.,

[5MadFarmers]

Top two shelves are DRMs and SNLs. Mainly DRMs. Lower shelves are the 1920s/1930s TRs.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2014/g25.png

[5MadFarmers]

There's more. Other closets and the basement. I don't like keeping stuff down there due to environment. I'm supposed to have bedroom #1 and the cave. The cave is big, has 7 of those book cases full of books and manuals, but I've reached the safe limit. So 152 long guns max in those. In a pinch low value ones don't need to be in there.

The Krag book resulted in overflow. That's mainly why I need to push that book out. I need those rooms back at some point.

In any event the Krag book should be out before much longer. The rest of the books? At this point I'm thinking "a decade hence." Lots of data to process. Missing items to buy. Then the big walk for the books.

The wife is tolerant.

[5MadFarmers]

This might be a little long and a little "ventish."

I finished the Krag book. Knocked it out in about two weeks. Obviously my typing speed is epic. I was a programmer. Posted some pictures here for comments. Two parties were heard from (one here and one elsewhere):
1) Hosmer. Didn't like me baking up a school gun.

Which presented a problem. I didn't want to spend money on a "PC" rifle when they're all nonsense. I'm also not big on .22s. So no GP. Fine, whatever, I bought a GP and a JFC stamped school gun. With those done it then bugged me that I was missing the first block 1899. So I trolled for one. Have one now but that's a saga so I kind of don't. But kind of do. Long story. UPS turned the stock into lumber in shipping, which isn't a problem as I have another, but it just kind of went hinky. While I was rounding up those guns I didn't want I also bid good money on a Parkhurst. Was barely beat out. Ok, it's a sign, no Parkhurst. Not spending that kind of money just to get a gun for one photo. "Borrow a photo." No. Against my religion. If I photo it - it's mine. Except the tropical oiler as I made an exception for that after getting a dispensation from the gods. Mook sent me a nice photo before he died.

Getting long? Figured it I had to buy the few guns I was missing I might as well get the cadet bayonets. So I did. Both years and two different scabbards. Missing the bolo bayonet. That, like the Parkhurst, can just piss off. Not paying that kind of money for something that doesn't light my fire. I did get a keystone scabbard and that's compensation.

So guns and blades complete. Except the 1892 carbine and cadet but that's another story.

2) A little birdie.

"You really do have to include pictures of peripheral stuff too." Really? Why? The stuff was packed in plastic bins. Lots of them. The amount of work to process that? "Too much."

Fine. Took the car out of the garage. Bought boxes. Set them up in the garage. Where else will they fit? Started opening bins. Boxed it in the garage. Leaving the boxes with stuff that's Krag era out. Thus those open boxes above. So the non-Krag era stuff was completely processed and boxed. The Krag era stuff is in boxes in the dining room. Living room. Kitchen. Front hall. Well, pretty much everywhere except the bathroom and bedroom #4. We sleep there.

So I'm ready. I have all the guns. I have all the blades. The boxes are out having the gear.

Except now I'm pooped.

[Shooter5]

Now you're just making excuses…








Seriously - :icon_salut:

Oh. My. Goodness. You need to buy a bigger house and hire a secretary.

[13Echo]

Good grief! Where do you have room for you?

Seriously please keep on keeping on. I'm looking forward to buying your book as a present for my one and only Krag.

Jerry Liles

[browningautorifle]

Likewise, I'll be getting one as soon as you confirm their availability.

[psteinmayer]

Put me down for one too Joe!

P.S. When you're finished, and feel like gifting some of those beautiful Krags, remember - I'm your long lost cousin! LOL Seriously though... your hard work will pay of in spades! Awesome!

[rayg]

Now that's what I call a collection.

Tried the cover on the Krag, Enfield, and Springfield with the part marked "place over cocking piece", as it says and it fit them all, Ray.

[Dick Hosmer]

Boy, that Hosmer guy has really been a minor, but persistant, irritant, hasn't he?

I think, though after years of tilting at windmills as it were, I should know better than to question, that it was the (apparently) humped Cadet that I objected to?

Looking forward to the book! Am sure we will all be grateful for your efforts. Best wishes.

[5MadFarmers]

Boy, that Hosmer guy has really been a minor, but persistant, irritant, hasn't he?

Indeed.


I think, though after years of tilting at windmills as it were,

Dick, if I didn't respect you I'd ignore you. Same for the birdy. Call yourself Jiminy Cricket if it helps. If I didn't think you had a point it wouldn't have derailed the book for a year.


I should know better than to question, that it was the (apparently) humped Cadet that I objected to?

Humped picture. We already did that. Honestly it annoyed people that they fell for it - not that I did it. Then the emotion hits that "I've been snookered." Indeed you were. That's followed by "I must be losing it." Better to go the other way: "the bugger did a illusion worthy of Copperfield." It'd be harder to do in real life. Why? It was morphed pictures of three guns from the right era. The base was a gun made at the same time. The other pictures excluded any details that would detract. That can't be done in real life.

Maybe it can now that I think about it. I guess it depends on the effort one wants to spend. Photo editing takes very little. Aging wood takes much.

Anyway. If I didn't respect you and the birdie I wouldn't listen.




Looking forward to the book! Am sure we will all be grateful for your efforts. Best wishes.

People will love it or hate it. I'm not sure there will be any middle ground.