M1 Problems

[meterman]

Need some more help with our Legion M1s, boys. We've spent about a grand on our M1s in the ten years that we've had them, and new problems crop up every day. Two days ago we had a field day; stripped, cleaned and lubed them all. Yesterday we shot graveside, and the one that I had fired once, and that was it. So I went through the motions as if I were firing. Back at the post I noticed that the bolt had caught the edge of the clip, rather than picking up the next cartridge. Could it be that the clip had not been fully locked in place when it was loaded? I have noticed that some of these beaters are very difficult to insert the clip in. Maybe the rifle that I had was one of them. (I didn't load them.)

To correct the problem of difficult loading, which parts would have to be replaced? Also have noticed that some of the bolts won't go all the way to the rear and click, when operating the op rod.

There are only 2 or 3 of us that trained on these M1s, and no one else knows a thing about them. We have purchased the blue M1/M14 manual, but the trouble-shooting sections rarely apply to the problems that we perpetually have.

Jesus, I wish that we had never turned in those minty 03A3s for these POS clunkers.

Thanks for any help rendered.

[Dollar Bill]

Take a look at this article about prolems loading an en bloc:
http://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-enbloc-clip-problem

The Garand is a work of art but all the pieces/parts have to be within spec for everything to work as advertised. I suspect some combination of worn parts and/or improper assembly. You also say that some of the bolts don't lock back fully. That's a leading cause of Garand Thumb! The bolt's holding on the follower, which will release the bolt as soon as a an en bloc is inserted!

Look at your en blocs also. Distorted/worn, they can be problematic.

[emmagee1917]

If the clip was all the way down , it cannot hit the bolt . That it did tells me the clip had unlatched . Most common cause is the clip latch spring is weak , causing the latch to not get a good bite . Anouther cause may be a warn clip latch . If the tip that grabs the clip is worn it may not get a good grab . Thirdly , if the clip notch itself is worn or if it's one of the imported ones with the heavy park on them , the knotch may not be deep / sharp enough to get a bite . Forthly , The bullet guide may be worn . This is the large "Z" shaped plate that hooks into the reciever legs in the front and lies along the bottom of the barrel . The very tip of that has a nub that sticks out . If that little tit wears just a bit it can throw your timing off . This can affect clip ejection and bolt locking back . Measure the hight of the nubs and get back to us .Good thing , all these parts are common and cheep.
Chris

[UUURah]

When I first got ahold of my local Legion M-1's about 10 yrs ago, they were a total mess. Some parts were actually installed wrong .. yes, it IS possible.

Someone who knows the parts should take each down one at a time, inspect every part, CLEAN each part, dry and then Grease/Oil them properly. If no parts look out of whack, put it together, working each part, working the Oprod/Bolt and making sure there is no snag.

If there is no bad parts, if they are lubed properly, AND they are installed correctly, should be no problems.

The worst, most cruddy, most neglected Garand I have ever seen is NOT a POS. It's usually caused by the nut with his finger on the trigger.

[PhillipM]

It sounds like the clip tried to eject and the bolt hit it. I would try new or known functioning clips and then maybe the clip latch spring.

Take the rifle out of the wood and pull the op rod back and see why it won't latch. I have no idea what's going on there, but it's very simple to see how it's supposed to latch (click) onto the op rod when fully retracted.

I wish I was nearby, I'd come help.

[meterman]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I kept the offending rifle back today, and the others shot fine. This troublesome one was a worn-out specimen that we got to replace one of those post-WW2 rifles that had the gas screw welded down and the barrel spot-welded to the action.

And yes, there ARE POS M1s. The first 10 we got brought tears to our eyes. 2 or 3 broken stocks, 6 or 7 oprods that had to be set right, 2 or 3 broken handguards, a couple of gas systems that were out of spec that we replaced, a bad trigger spring, broken mainsprings, a broken safety. All of them looked as if they had been basic training rifles--beat up wood, no finish on the metal. To their credit, they did spray flat black paint on the muzzles and gas systems to make at least the front ends look pretty.

I think back to my basic training days, and can never remember a jam or a malfunction with these things (1959.) We shot hundreds of rounds each day, for two weeks, and they all seemed to run well. Now, with these blanks we shoot, it is rare to get a full 21 rounds off.

It sounds as if the clip latch and spring may be the culprit. I shall investigate these next week. We do about 80 funerals a year, so these things don't just sit and collect dust.

Thanks for the advice.

[PhillipM]

Can't you ship these to the Army for repair?

[UUURah]

And yes, there ARE POS M1s.

Ship them to ME. I'll take all you want to "throw away".

[meterman]

One of them we finally were able to get Anniston to fix for us. They did a good job, but never said what they did. They sent back the gas cylinder, which was one that we had paid good money for, and replaced it with one of theirs. So we had diagnosed the problem correctly, but just bought more sxxt to replace the sxxt that we already had. What other parts they replaced we could not tell.

Once we stripped off all the op rods and sent them to Ohio to Jim to fix. They were almost all bent all to crap, and a few had some of the tits on the rods worn so badly that they had to be scrapped....uff, these things have just been a nightmare.

On this board many years ago, an old timer begged us not to trade in our Springfields for M1s. What he predicted came true.

[browningautorifle]

It's exactly the same as having a car and not knowing how to fix it. It doesn't make all cars faulty. Either learn how to fix it or get a mechanic...

[fogerty]

A few years ago I inspected/cleaned the M1's of a local VFW, at the request of CMP. All the op rods were bent, really bent, so I recommended scrapping all the rifles. CMP would replace small parts, but not oprods. CMP replaced all the rifles. I would contact CMP and see if they will replace the rifles. Forgot who the point of contact was, but the CMP would work with VFW/American Legion to keep the rifles operable. Hope this helps.

[PKelly]

Some of you gents are pretty harsh. He called their M1's a POS. It's not as if he called your momma fat or your daughter a whore, lighten up.

[madsenshooter]

Timely thread. I've been having a problem with my Garand, last two matches I shot in it ejected the clip, along with the eighth round, in rapid fire. After reading some of your ideas, I think I found the offending clip, not enough square edge for the latch to get a positive hold.

[blackhawk2]

I went thru this a couple of years ago with worn out M-1's....There is a Amy Command in Michigan that directs the CMP to support Honor Guards...It Maybe Tradoc....Don't know for sure....Don't hold your breadth on what you get from the CMP....regards alex

[meterman]

Not quite that simple. We've already spent over a thousand on op rod straightening, replacement op rods, replacement stocks, replacement gas cylinders and a myriad of small parts. I replaced the parts recommended by the readers here, and shot it yesterday for funeral #9 of the month. The first shot worked, the 2nd failed to feed, jamming halfway out of the clip. So, was it a crappy lot of ammo (2012 LC mfg,) or was it an out-of-spec gas cylinder? We can't test fire them in town any more, since the last time we did the cops showed up in their black SWAT gear and AR15s, looking for shooters.

I guess I will have to beg the CMP to replace these. We can't keep spending money on them, just to have something else fail. We need reliable rifles.

[UUURah]

I guess I just don't GET IT.

When I first got ahold of my American Legion M-1's about 10 years ago, they were total PIECE OF SHEITES. But it was mainly from neglect, never being cleaned, various SMALL PARTS not being replaced, and not Greased properly. Yes, I said GREASED. Here in the South, we use Gun Grease. I have a bunch of those small Garand Pods that I use.

Today, they are in such good shape that there is one that seemed to not have been fired with blanks as much. The bore took a good cleaning, and came out nice. It didn't have a BFA on it so, in order to keep the GasCyl and front handguard on, I put on a GasCyl Lock (out of my "stash"). Then I took it to the range.

Firing it at 100 yds, it did fine, not MOA, but good enough for "Gubmit Work". I wouldn't hesitate to use it in a Garand Match if need be.

Yes.... those PIECE OF CRAAAP Garands. What was John C. Garand thinking when he invented it. What was Patton thinking when he said, "The Garand is the Finest Battle Implement ever devised by man".

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.

[blackhawk2]

As far as a gas cylinder inspection....I have a pin gauge, manufactured by Vermont Gage, in a .530 diameter...Remove the gas plug, insert the gage with the decimal point leading the way into the gas cylinder....If you can insert the pin gauge past the 0, it is time for a new gas cylinder....regards alex

[meterman]

All I can say in closing is that keeping these 10 junkers running is like keeping 10 '49 Frazers running at the local stock car races. Yes, we grease them, no oiling. I am about to start my official whining. It would be different if they just stayed locked in the safe, but we use these things every week. We are doing the military's work, and need better tools to do it with.

[meterman]

Fail to feed on 5 on the last volley today.

[John Kepler]

Can't you ship these to the Army for repair?

Think about it Phil.....who the hell in this man's Army knows ANYTHING about a Garand, let alone how to fix one! The rifles are museum pieces built before most of the guys in today's Army's Great Grandfathers were born! It's like asking a current ASE Certified mechanic to be able to work on a Model T or Stutz Bearcat as readily as he works on a Toyota Prius!

[John HOLBROOK]

This is an unabashed plug for my Holbrook Device. Any questions call or email......

http://m1thumbsaver.com/