A "Legitimate" Air Service M1903 ...

[Rick the Librarian]

Those of us who have been studying or collecting M1903s over the years have seen several M1903s identified (mostly by greedy sellers) as "Air Service M1903s". Nearly all of them have been revealed as sporterized rifles or attempts at fakes or "reproductions".

I was contacted via email by a gentleman who revealed that he had been given a cut-down M1903 and wanted help identifying it and sent me some pictures. I first noticed the serial number, which was in "Air Service" range (usually in the 825,000-860,000 range); then, I noticed the peculiar rear sight, as well as the shape of the cut-down fore-end. I compared it to pictures I had in various reference books and it seemed to match up.

I finally sent the pictures to John Beard, who confirmed that it was indeed an Air Service M1903. Obviously, it has seen considerable hard service over many years.

I have no "interest" in this rifle, I was just thrilled to get a chance to see pictures of a "legitimate" one. The gentleman said it may have come from his great grandfather, but he did have a grandfather who served in the cavalry during WWI. He is working on the story.

http://www.fototime.com/41AAC2210B8BAF1/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/885A4589C66D561/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/E06D815ED114E5B/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/511D5184D6EDD85/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/C62580C6B0062A4/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/9E859F90E06B5B4/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/80AE8164C91C70B/standard.jpg

[Shooter5]

Neat! Did those also have the 20 round magazine?

[pickax]

Very interesting Rick!
Was this one modified for the detachable magazine? Or were some not modified.
Would love to see more pics and hear the full history.

[chuckindenver]

star gauged barrel? the others that i have seen, had them

[Rick the Librarian]

As far as I know, it doesn't have the 20-round magazine. The owner said it had seen extensive use as a hunting rifle and a 20-round magazine would get in the way. As far as I remember, the 20-round magazine was modified for the rifle, not the other way round.

Chuck, I'm assuming you mean the Star Gauge registry number on the top of the barrel towards the receiver end? The "star" on the crown wasn't fitted until the early 1920s.

[emmagee1917]

The 20 rd. conversion mag was not detachable as we think it. It replaced the floor plate and would work on any '03 that had a floor plate . The kit also had a longer magazine spring ( of course ) and a metal plate to hold it all together as the mag had no feed lips as those were built into the rifle.
Chris

[Fred]

What on earth does the man intend to do with the rifle? Surely he doesn't intend to develope an interest in and start collecting fine and expensive 1903's...
He could sell it to an advanced collector though who would give him a serious and fair amount of money for it to pursue other interests. There are plenty of such collectors out there I'm sure who have been looking for such a rifle to fill an empty nitch in their collection.

[m1903rifle]

Will it be for sale? If so, I'm interested.

[Rick the Librarian]

To my knowledge, the rifle will be a "keeper".

[Shooter5]

RTL: peruse the USAF Museum virtual tour, IIRC there is an air rifle on display.

http://www.nmusafvirtualtour.com/full/tour-std.html

Try the Navy museum as well but I can't recall seeing an air rifle:

http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/education/virtual-tour/

SA Museum:

http://ww3.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCGI.exe?IDCFile=/spring/DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=9705,DATABASE=66380668

[Rick the Librarian]

Will do - thanks!

[ClaudeH]

I hope he controls all that surface rust!

Rick: Do you have any more pictures? I'd like to see a close-up of the nose of the stock and a shooter's eye view of that rear sight.

[jaie5070]

Does anyone have a close up of a modified mag or know what needs to be done to modify one? I have a couple of BAR mags sitting in my garage that I can play with.
john

[Fred]

No need to do anything so drastic. The correct 25 round extension magazines are always being sold somewhere. I recently sold three. These magazines are not modified. They are made of heavy gauge steel and are unique in their design and construction.


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s2_zpsbc7fe83f.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s2_zpsbc7fe83f.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s4_zps6a8b5b40.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s4_zps6a8b5b40.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s3_zpsaa24fb0e.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s3_zpsaa24fb0e.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s5_zpsc8c7da11.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s5_zpsc8c7da11.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s8_zpsd45411f8.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s8_zpsd45411f8.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/s9_zps215f6233.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/s9_zps215f6233.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/pouch7_zps27849d99.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/pouch7_zps27849d99.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/pouch9-1_zps0016beb8.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/pouch9-1_zps0016beb8.jpg.html)

[Fred]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/mag1_zpse6e41d15.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/mag1_zpse6e41d15.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/mag2_zps66304996.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/mag2_zps66304996.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/mag3_zps90c6a7a7.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/mag3_zps90c6a7a7.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/mag4_zps02158ed8.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/mag4_zps02158ed8.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/mag5_zpsab60455b.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/mag5_zpsab60455b.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/mag6_zpsf2c53aeb.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/mag6_zpsf2c53aeb.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/mag10_zps19634d20.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/mag10_zps19634d20.jpg.html)


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/pix286003224.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/pix286003224.jpg.html)

[jaie5070]

Thanks for the great pics. Were the magazines preloaded or was the rifle loaded after the magazine was installed.
John

[Fred]

Actually, there was only need for one magazine per rifle because they had to be installed on the rifle empty and then have five stripper clips loaded. I was just wanting a picture or two of both magazines and so I mounted both on a belt for the fun of it.

[emmagee1917]

No feed lips on the mags . Nothing to keep the rounds in place when removed from the rifle .
Chris

[BudT]

Somewhere in a box here or at the storage locker I have one of those OMO 1917 pouches. Didn't know what they were for until now.

[tom gray]

Rick
I think it is great this rifle has surfaced. It is good the owner wants to keep it. I hope he allows
guys like you, John Beard, chuckindenver to check it out & further our knowledge of this rifle.
I want to learn all I can.
Tom

[JBinIll]

Somewhere in a box here or at the storage locker I have one of those OMO 1917 pouches. Didn't know what they were for until now.

Those are one of the most misidentified pouches there is.That is the Model 1916 General Purpose Pouch. It also goes by various names- squad leader pouch, pouch for small articles. It was meant to be worn on the haversack under the meatcan pouch in place of the intrenching tool. One man in a squad would use the pouch which would carry various small supplies which could be easily acessed. This would include first aid items such as adhesive tape, footpowder, and also a sewing kit.There are 5 or 6 of them on e-bay right now.I've seen one or two pictures of them being worn on the pistol or cartridge belt.

http://www.aef-doughboys.com/otherfieldgear.html

[Fred]

That's interesting JB. Thanks for sharing that. I'd read a description of one by a seller on ebay that said it was meant for the 25 round extension magazine and so I just used them for that. The magazines do fit into them perfectly and so I figured that they must be indeed for the magazine as well as the rifle floor plate and spring and follower when the magazine is being used.
Appreciate the information JB. Thanks again!

[JBinIll]

There use came about because of the difficulty of getting anything out of the M1910 pack without totally undoing the whole pack like getting foot powder out on the march.Since the Air Service rifle magazine is not really a detachable magazine in the sense of a BAR magazine is and given who and where the intended use of the rifle was for it is doubtful it was ever used for that purpose.But then it does say "General Purpose" doesn't it. LOL

[JBinIll]

Here's another often mis-identified piece of web gear.It was a grenade carrier but for the Vivien-Bessiere rifle grenade not hand grenades.

http://www.aef-doughboys.com/fieldgearphotos/Grenadecarrier.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/dwlynn/french/VIVIEN_BESSIERE.jpg

[Smokeeaterpilot]

Great find Rick! Nice to find a real one.

[Fred]

That's an interesting device. How does it work?

[JBinIll]

http://tonnel-ufo.ru/foto/oruhie/grenade_1/france/vb-1.jpg
That's an interesting device. How does it work?

http://www.secondeguerre.net/images/articles/armes/fr/gr/schemagrenade.gif