1937 Navy M1911

[gbethu]

Did anyone notice the astronomical price item #444787759 on GB sold for yesterday evening. The numbers were so big I thought I was in an Astronomy Class.

[colt thompson]

I was shocked to see it go that high but it's not a year I follow.

[stan4]

I was asked to watch this auction and followed it for 5 days. Reality Check!

[gbethu]

Well Stan 4, ...reality check is a good thing to ask for. I tend to lose sight of it at times as has been noted on this board at times as many of you know. I would really like to own a 95%+ condition 1937 NAVY.

Fortunately I have wiser and more experienced friends that help me stay between the guard rails. This was one of those nights.
When you do the math, the 1937 Navy's that still have original slide/frame serial numbers that match are like 1938 M1911s in 90%++. There just aren't many to be had.
I was running out of oxygen ...I have the money BUT...Reality Check !!!!!!

Congratulations to the new owner.

[guns3545]

Reality??? Or a shill team at work?? Look at bidders and pattern. One time bidder as winner??

Gordon, you are well out of this auction. And I believe we will see this gun again. Very soon. JMVHO

John

[ignats]

Shill? The gun sold for just over $43K. Wouldn't the seller be obliged to either pay the auction fees (which would be pretty steep somewhere around $550). If the guy wants to avoid the fee, he has to leave a negative for the seller and open a case with gunbroker. The seller might also be totally bogus dude, and busting the seller's b*lls or it's some who doesn't want to be identified.

[Shooter5]

Wowzer! That serial number is extremely close to some of the 1937s that served aboard the battleship USS North Carolina BB-55 in WW2. (712001, 712003?, 712035 {only 10 off!}, and 712042 for example. Several more in the 712300s range) For that matter, the USS Washington BB-56 and the Showboat were the first battleships commissioned in over 15 years and were the pride of the fleet and nation (sort of like the B-2 or F-22s of their day). I would bet they had first choice of the 1937 contract or; perhaps they were a primary reason the contracts were initiated in the first place with the Navy knowing they would come on line soon? I wonder if this example went to BB-56…?

http://www.battleshipnc.com

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/55a.htm

https://www.facebook.com/NCBB55

[Tommy2guns]

I was told by a well known, well versed collector out of Ohio that this pistol was restored by Steve Moeller along with 8-10 others for a collector in Pennsylvania about 2 1/2 years ago. And now they have shot and given some assistance in aging the patina along and being dolled out into the market.

This in no way is criticizing or accusing Mr. Moeller of anything. It is not illegal in anyway to simply restore guns. Whatever happens to them after they leave his hands is not his fault in anyway.

Everyone here is probably aware of another fellow out of Huntington Beach, Ca that is notorious for like kind behavior. If it is or isn't restored is a far less stinging issue and debate than whether or not the pistol is actually genuine and authentic Colt with its original serial number.

There is something else I have noticed on Gunbroker lately. There is a fellow from Sparta, Tn who sells the finest reproduction boxes I have ever seen. This is just one random example of a pre 1900 Colt SAA box he lists the box as authentic and not what they are. These boxes are almost never found in even fair condition. His are obviously new manufacture reproductions.

The arrogance he seems to have is in his denial of what collectors' powers of observation really are. Does he really think that the entire collector gun buying community is dumb enough to believe that he just happened upon a stash of hundreds of new, mint condition Colt boxes somewhere? This holds true on almost every box he is selling as this example is not the exception but appears to be the rule.

Would some idiot, I mean IDIOT be willing to pay $750 for a cardboard box that someone with great printing skills cobbled together for probably a couple of bucks after they got their craft mastered? Boggles the mind....
I mean if you can produce a faked out cardboard box with some print on it and get $750 out of it over and over, then guys that counterfeit US currency are on the wrong trail.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with making or selling or buying reproduction anything, but come on $750 for that?

I emailed him not long ago about it and asked him directly, " You do know these boxes are reproductions, don't you?". His response was "Well people are buying them and I don't have any knowledge of where they are made or their original source." If that were true then there is some stork that delivers these great treasures to his porch in the middle of the night as he sleeps and that he has been blessed with the opportunity to make all this money for himself and his family because the gun gods have shined a light on him.

I think there are a lot of folks out there that are getting very skilled and honed at the craft of following these gun related collecting trends and capitalizing on them to a skill and level we never saw 30-40 years ago. Ten years ago for that fact..

[Tommy2guns]

It appears the story has made that turn many have remarked on regarding this auction being a complete shill game. I understand that this guy's "buyer" at $43,025 has welched on and is not going to take the gun. So he may be peddling it again privately.

I bet it sucks when your shill game doesn't work out the way you wanted it to and your simple greed got the best of you.

[Charlie Flick]

Everyone here is probably aware of another fellow out of Huntington Beach, Ca that is notorious for like kind behavior. If it is or isn't restored is a far less stinging issue and debate than whether or not the pistol is actually genuine and authentic Colt with its original serial number.

There is something else I have noticed on Gunbroker lately. There is a fellow from Sparta, Tn who sells the finest reproduction boxes I have ever seen. This is just one random example of a pre 1900 Colt SAA box he lists the box as authentic and not what they are. These boxes are almost never found in even fair condition. His are obviously new manufacture reproductions.

Tommy:

The guy from Huntingdon Beach is not in this racket anymore. I understand that he no longer has an FFL and has stopped selling guns. I do believe his son may still be selling off a lot of paper, parts and other stuff.

The "Fake Box Guy", as he is now known, is regularly pilloried over on the Colt Forum. Tarring and feathering have been discussed. Here is simply one of the many threads in which his chicanery have been discussed. It now apparently extends to fake test targets. Are fake factory letters far behind??

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/84088-been-gone-seen-fake-stuff-getting-much-better-unfortunately-whats-up.html

Regards,
Charlie

[kwill]

Charlie,

A few years ago at a CCA show, Kathy Hoyt showed me and Lowell Pauli a big stack of fake Colt letters and asked what she should do about it.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

[stan4]

Charlie,

A few years ago at a CCA show, Kathy Hoyt showed me and Lowell Pauli a big stack of fake Colt letters and asked what she should do about it.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

Yes, Fake Colt Letters have been around for at least 15 years.

I did not hear---Did Colt (Kathy Hoyt) come up with a solution? (Just send in for a verification/reissue?)

Best Regards,

[Charlie Flick]

Yeah, I was aware of the occasional fake Colt letter turning up but did not know that it was being done on an industrial basis. A sad turn of events.

Charlie

[Tommy2guns]

I thought I knew something when seeing the occasional reproduction box but had no idea the targets and letters were out there to the extent they are being seen. I spoke with a fellow at the Vegas show this weekend and he and his wife were selling great original boxes and some inserts. They had a great comparison showing the originals side by side with reproduction pieces they bought online from the Tennessee dealer.

Once educated on the little details, a sharp collector can spot the differences fairly quickly.

Funny thing was I brought this subject up regarding the early Colt SAA box here and it didn't draw the battle cries I thought it would. And that was probably because the thread was relating the SAA and not the 1911. But the majority of the SAA guys in Vegas zeroed right in and were well versed in this particular guy and his find of the great Colt gun box mine hidden somewhere in the Blue Ridge Parkway!

[Tommy2guns]

As for this 1937 Navy in Jersey, only an overly eager teenage girl wanting to hear what she wants would believe that EJ from New Jersey and Yuri from Illinois are not playing a game trying to maximize the surge in Navy model values.

Let's see if he puts it back online and starts it at a no reserve $0.01 launch. Blocks his last winner from bidding altogether and even maybe go down his original bidder list and see if there were any other questionable "b.s." bidders and put them on the blocked docket. That would give his credibility a little bit of a recharge.

[prewar]

Funny how no neg or neutral has been posted on either

[Tommy2guns]

Exactly.....

[EJsArsenal]

This auction was run on the up & up. I made a tactile choice not to block this bidder based on his one positive feedback. After the auction, he did not respond to multiple emails, I had to run an Intellius search on him to get his work & cell numbers. After I texted him, he blocked my number. His user name is archwire1 on Gunbroker and I have left him a negative feedback (his feedback rating is now C(2) becuase of me) and I have started the NPB process to re-coop the $550 in final value fees that he has cost me. I did approach gbethu and the 2nd place bidder, offering both a opportunity to buy the Navy Colt THROUGH Gunbroker at the behest of the seller. No dice, no sale, no commission. But on the positive side, I gained an anonymous stalker named armsmear Feel free to ask any questions you like to verify my story. Honest men always face their accusers.



It appears the story has made that turn many have remarked on regarding this auction being a complete shill game. I understand that this guy's "buyer" at $43,025 has welched on and is not going to take the gun. So he may be peddling it again privately.

I bet it sucks when your shill game doesn't work out the way you wanted it to and your simple greed got the best of you.

[gbethu]

This auction was run on the up & up. I made a tactile choice not to block this bidder based on his one positive feedback. After the auction, he did not respond to multiple emails, I had to run an Intellius search on him to get his work & cell numbers. After I texted him, he blocked my number. His user name is archwire1 on Gunbroker and I have left him a negative feedback (his feedback rating is now C(2) becuase of me) and I have started the NPB process to re-coop the $550 in final value fees that he has cost me. I did approach gbethu and the 2nd place bidder, offering both a opportunity to buy the Navy Colt THROUGH Gunbroker at the behest of the seller. No dice, no sale, no commission. But on the positive side, I gained an anonymous stalker named armsmear Feel free to ask any questions you like to verify my story. Honest men always face their accusers.


All's well that ends well. EJ and the owner did the right thing and we completed the purchase. It's a truly beautiful gun. Thanks to a well known and respected Ohio collector, I secured the correct barrel. This pistol is certainly in outstanding condition.

It's an education for me to learn of all the maneuvers people will do to buy/sell or just screw with any deal. I'm sure that's been true for years..My bet is I'm not the first one to have scar tissue from bad deals. This, thankfully resulted in my acquisition of a remarkable 1937 Navy issued M1911-A1.

Thanks to all of you for helping point out the rocks in the road.

gordon

[1563621]

Very nice buy Gordon!