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View Full Version : Remnants of forging marks?



OD#3
10-22-2014, 10:58
I know I haven't posted on here for a very long time. But this community was my go-to place for information 10-15 years ago, and I had to rejoin 4 years ago. I recently traded a buddy out of his just-received CMP Service Grade. I thought I had quit collecting Garands and had no plans to purchase any more from the CMP. But as my friend showed off his new Garand, I was immediately impressed with its condition.

He wasn't all that excited about it. He hated the Birch buttstock, and its mix of parts was a bit of a disappointment to him as well. So we struck a deal.

My first Garand was the nicest until now. I bought it at an LGS, knowing nothing about them. I have no doubt that it was a DCM Garand probably purchased back in the '80's. It was a late Springfield RRAD rebuild that I foolishly let go. Regretting that for years, I finally became aware of the CMP.

My first CMP Garand was purchased back when you were allowed one per year and could not specify manufacturer. I received an all HRA Service Grade in great shape--almost as nice as that RRAD rebuild and worth much more now considering its "correct" status. I bought some Danish returns when they hit the scene and even picked up two at the North store before there was ever a South store. They were pretty nice, but I had seen nothing from the CMP in person to rival that HRA or RRAD rebuild until now. Sure, there were guys posting all over the internet about their recently-received CMP Garands in fantastic shape, but I was never so lucky.

I haven't been paying attention to the CMP lately, or I'd know that they no longer specify "Greek". I also didn't know until now about the generally nice condition of the Greek Air Force rifles that they're encountering now. So my surprise at the excellent overall condition of this latest Garand has abated quite a bit (I thought it just had to have come from storage in the US somewhere after being used by the National Guard or something). Still, it is a very nice example of a 1942 SA rebuilt at Springfield in 1965 that was probably lent to Greece and used very little.

There was an ancient piece of masking tape on the bolt with writing on it indicating the serial number and rack number (51). The stock is also stamped with a "51", so I know that the stock has probably been with the rifle since rebuild. The tape was pretty brittle and didn't figure to last, so I ended up removing it during the initial cleaning. I did, however, photograph it beforehand.

Now for the question: The only odd thing I've noticed about this receiver is the bottom front--the area that was rounded on the early Garands and changed to an angled flat on later ones. This receiver has the rounded front, but that area looks really scarred up. It almost looked like it was old pitting that had been cleaned up during rebuild, but I'm beginning to think that it may have been left over raw forging surface. Perhaps the beginning cuts on the receiver were just a tad too far farward, shifting the whole milling operations forward enough to expose the rough forged surface? Or perhaps this is just some odd damage on an otherwise excellent-condition receiver.

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2518_zps14b92c49.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2518_zps14b92c49.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2521_zpsa70b909c.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2521_zpsa70b909c.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2458_zpsb7685be9.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2458_zpsb7685be9.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2460_zps99a62b27.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2460_zps99a62b27.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2510_zpsf9a91058.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2510_zpsf9a91058.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2490_zps5fc8a5c4.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2490_zps5fc8a5c4.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2488_zps327d1346.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2488_zps327d1346.jpg.html)

OD#3
10-22-2014, 04:06
Well, based on some more diligent web searching, I have found numerous pics of forging voids--some Winchester and IHC. I haven't seen any yet of the particular area of my receiver, but I've concluded that this area was probably a forging void, and I read today that forging voids were more common on early '42 SA's. I do have a question about the masking tape, though. I've had no luck finding any information on this. There appeared to be tape adhesive remaining along the sides of the stock and bottom of the trigger housing floorplate, suggesting that the tape on the bolt was once part of a wide strip that encircled the stock and receiver. I can understand the importance of keeping these parts mated together, but taping them together with masking tape and writing the serial number and rack number on the tape just seemed a bit odd to me.

seagoatami
10-22-2014, 04:32
hi OD im no expert on garands , but its got to be a forging error becase the only other thing that would break and resemble that would be a casting, and Im quite sure no reciievers were ever cast for garands. seems to me that would be quite dangerous. Buttttt. like I said im no expert. On the other hand I do know a bit about metal though ..........sea

twh
10-22-2014, 05:45
Looks like a forging flaw to me. They are not all that uncommon and as long as it didn't affect functionality it was ignored. Not isolated to WW II production either as I have seen flaws on IHC and HRA receivers as well. If it were pitting there would be pitting on other areas of the receiver as well which doesn't appear evident on yours. Nice looking rifle by the way

RCS
10-22-2014, 06:26
Some receivers have that rough forging milled flat which will eliminate the curved part. Certain M1 rifle data sheets show a drawing of the front section of the receiver and the corner is left blank - you can then draw a curve or straight line. I have an SA 80K that was milled flat on the corner.

Dan Shapiro
10-22-2014, 06:29
OD3# - consider what was happening when that receiver was made. Late Feb- early Mar 1942. We needed rifles NOW! So there was a minor forging blemish. Smooth it out - get it out!

Rock
10-22-2014, 11:18
You have a very nice, collectable 10-65 SA rebuild there.

OD#3
10-23-2014, 04:26
Thanks for the replies, the confirmation on the forging voids, and the kind words, guys. Now that I know for certain what they are, I like the rifle even more. This early '42 receiver is a lot like others I've seen--rougher milling marks in some areas (especially the legs) than in other years, and I actually prefer stuff like this. It says something about the seriousness of the situation then.

Rock
10-23-2014, 10:10
Many of us like the arsenal rebuilds and study them. Do you have any more photos of the rest of the rifle?

DRB
10-23-2014, 10:19
This is a forging void on a H&R. They are pretty common but this one is a pretty bad one.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/drbecker/13007-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/drbecker/media/13007-1.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/drbecker/13008.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/drbecker/media/13008.jpg.html)

OD#3
10-24-2014, 10:58
Many of us like the arsenal rebuilds and study them. Do you have any more photos of the rest of the rifle?

Yes, but none that really detail the revision numbers of individual parts. Mostly just "gun porn" highlighting color variations and pleasing (to me) lines. But for what it's worth.....

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2474_zps6a0577d6.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2474_zps6a0577d6.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2475_zps62cafcaa.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2475_zps62cafcaa.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2473_zpsc86c13f7.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2473_zpsc86c13f7.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2515_zps1d480a20.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2515_zps1d480a20.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2514_zpsd0444f7d.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2514_zpsd0444f7d.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2508_zps1e7c21ac.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2508_zps1e7c21ac.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2507_zps6d42bc65.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2507_zps6d42bc65.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2503_zps4876f6ab.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2503_zps4876f6ab.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2501_zps2bc908dc.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2501_zps2bc908dc.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2498_zps9265ab3e.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2498_zps9265ab3e.jpg.html)

OD#3
10-24-2014, 11:01
A few more...

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2497_zps9ae7a051.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2497_zps9ae7a051.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2496_zps9186999c.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2496_zps9186999c.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2494_zps1c634dd0.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2494_zps1c634dd0.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2491_zps300aca90.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2491_zps300aca90.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2484_zpsfa507b95.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2484_zpsfa507b95.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2482_zpsa568e1f0.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2482_zpsa568e1f0.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2479_zps5a8f2778.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2479_zps5a8f2778.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/johncantiusgarand/1942%20Garand/100_2478_zps85122245.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/johncantiusgarand/media/1942%20Garand/100_2478_zps85122245.jpg.html)

azimuth
10-24-2014, 08:19
Beautiful rifle, and I especially love the olive color on that receiver...congrats!

Rock
10-24-2014, 10:07
Thanks for the additional photos. Very nice rifle with SA rebuild features such as the smooth, glossy green SA park. Does the trigger housing inletting of the stock have glass bedding? I know they bedded the refurbished stocks. I was wondering if they also bedded new stocks like yours.

OD#3
10-25-2014, 12:22
No, it is just wood. I guess the glass bed was just a salvage maneuver. No need to bed a new stock