Need help on a price for a WWII Remington 31R

[desentis]

I am being asked to come up with a price for my WWII Remington 31. I'd appreciate some input of what's fair. I haven't really bought much lately.

Link to pics forthcoming (sorry, I had a bad link) Remington 31R not Ithaca.

Thanks in advance.

[1563621]

This one is at 2k and holding.

VINTAGE{ VERY RARE}Tactical Military 12 ga Shotgun
Auction # 453664317

[scosgt]

It REALLY depends on condition and how it is marked. Post some pics and I can give you some ideas.

[desentis]

Here are a few:

http://up2.it/Maddog/rem+1+%2810%29.jpg

http://up2.it/Maddog/rem+1+%2811%29.jpg

http://up2.it/Maddog/rem+1+%283%29.jpg

http://up2.it/Maddog/rem+1+%2812%29.jpg


http://up2.it/Maddog/rem+1+%282%29.jpg

[scosgt]

If the barrel and stock are matching (and I think the stock is based on the fit in the pic) it is a $2000+ gun. Very rare complete and matching.

[Dave L]

I would be interested if barrel and stock match.
sent PM

[scosgt]

This one is at 2k and holding.

VINTAGE{ VERY RARE}Tactical Military 12 ga Shotgun
Auction # 453664317

The bidders are INSANE. If original, it is a POLICE gun, and they made plenty. But you have to check the barrel for a front sight hole, years ago there were plenty of adapters around, and it appears to be just a standard Police riot gun. If it was not built as a Trench, the value is $300 or so for the gun, a few hundred for the adapter. If original, I would say that today it may be worth $800. I bought and sold those in the past for $300. They are NOT rare by any means.

[scosgt]

OH by the way, I have seen those new in the box. The rear swivels were NOT installed at the factory, they were provided in the box. The fact that it is installed may or may not mean something.

[da gimp]

I don't like the mark on the barrel under the cyl mark.........it sure looks like something else was stamped/engraved there & filled by some type of braising...........this makes me hinky & I'd also appreciate a close up or two of the cartouche on the left side of the butt.............What is the length of the barrel.........? Wondering if it wasn't for USO/club use or to train trap/skeet shooters. Other than that, it's a decent old Remington pump...........

[scosgt]

He called it a 31R, so I am assuming it is riot length. In that serial range it should ONLY be a riot and nothing else, those last 2000 guns are the only ones marked US PROPERTY and I have never heard of or seen a long barrel at that number range, but I could be wrong.

I think the cartouche is OK, the Remington shotguns were often a light or off center strike. The stock LOOKS right from the photos, they are fitted and a replacement is quite obvious.

[desentis]

Thanks everyone. it is all original and matching. I was hampered by the system and only did a few pics to show the markings and condition. Here are couple more. The obliteration of the choke marking is to be expected on this gun. It looks like the pictures I've seen in the reference books.

http://up2.it/Maddog/rem+1+%289%29.jpg

http://up2.it/Maddog/rem+1+%285%29.jpg

http://up2.it/Maddog/rem+1+%286%29.jpg

I believe the stock is original, although the plate is cracked!

http://up2.it/Maddog/rem+1+%281%29.jpg

[scosgt]

That is a really nice gun. People do not realize how rare that is, there are not many more M31's marked US PROPERTY than there are Ithaca Trench guns. $2000+ gun.

I do not see any problem with the choke marking, in that range they are all riot guns.

However, I was told by the Remington historian years ago that prior to probably the 1950's they never made 20" barrels, the riot guns were made up from 26" barrels that were cut down. As always, YMMV.

[da gimp]

one other thing........as it seems that you & scosgt answered my other questions fully......... is it at all possible to obtain a factory letter from Remington on these & other Rem. firearms, like we can with Winchester? I've never heard anyone speak of them............. Thank you for your quick response guys.

[scosgt]

Can someone tell me what he is talking about re: the CYL marking? I can't see anything strange on my monitor

[1563621]

Looks like full is crossed out and cyl added.

[scosgt]

Looks like full is crossed out and cyl added.

I can't see that on my monitor, but I can tell you what it means:

The receivers that were marked "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" were newly made for the US contract. We know that, because the Remington historian told me about 30 years ago that the markings are roll marked, and can not be done once the finish is applied. Thus, all the US guns, save the last 2000 or so, do not have marked receivers because they were receivers that were already built serial numbered and finished. They were taken from the warehouse and built up to the contract specification. There arefour series of US M31 shotguns: The first group were all long barrels, and were hand stamped on the left rear of the receiver with a bomb that looks kind of like a flower pot. I don't recall any stock markings, and I had one that was literally brand new.
The second group, with later serials, generally in the 54000-56000 serial range and all riots, had unmarked receivers with nothing on the stock. I have one of those in my safe with PD markings, but the stock appears to be original and not refinished. The build date is I think March 1942, so yes it is military, there were no civilian guns made at that time by any military contractor. The next serial range, up around 58,000 are all riot guns, and have an unmarked receiver and a cartouche on the stock, but only crossed cannons, NO FJA.
The last group, around 60,000 serial range as above, had the US PROPERTY marks and the crossed cannons.

So, to get back to the point, assuming the barrel matches the receiver, and the numbers are not altered, the answer is simple. They took a longer barrel out of stock and cut it to match. Since barrels were serial numbered back in those days, they were not blued until matched to a receiver, because they were fitted to the receiver and then numbered. So, in my opinion there is no funny stuff at work: shortly after that gun was built the M31 was taken out of production, and they used that production line for other guns. Since this was a build out situation, they took existing parts and fitted them to complete the contract.

I believe that gun to be "right as rain". And quite rare.

[scosgt]

And most of you probably know that the original parked M12 Trench Guns have some blued parts, such as the trigger, safety and slide bar. It is well documented that the same situation existed - those parts are common to all M12's and they had lots on hand, so they just used them.

Of course, I have seen mixmasters with blued barrels/adapters etc, and I do NOT consider those original. They were guns that were converted to sporting configuration and someone "restored" them from available parts.

[desentis]

scosgt Thanks for the insight. As always, I'm impressed by your knowledge.