Rack Rub Marks on "Original" WW2 M1

[Deacon]

Good evening,

Would rack rub marks (rub marks on the upper barrel, just above the front of the upper handguard) provide any hint as to the originality of a WW2 issued Garand?

The reason I ask is that there is a dealer, with a fairly good reputation, who is offering several rifles purported to be WW2 originals, all of which having these rub marks, to a varying degree.

Anyway, I was just curious as to whether or not such a relatively minor characteristic has any bearing on determining originality.

Thanks for your responses in advance.


Deacon

[gwp]

I have several of the CMP auctioned NAVY 7.62 conversions that have rub marks on the front of the stock. I thought the marks might be from rifles moving around in the racks while aboard a ship. This is just SWAG.

As for originality of WWII stocks, the stocks are interchangeable and should not be relied on to determine originality. Serial numbers over 4M would indicate post war receivers.

[Latigo 1]

Rack marks would have nothing to do with whether or not the rifle (or the barrel) was original. These rifles were stored in racks even after being overhauled, and barrels replaced.

[jd:^)]

I have an early HRA collector grade from the CMP that has "mongo" rack marks-look more like a chainsaw blade skipped across it. They are all located between the trigger housing floor plate swell in the stock and the stock ferrule. Couldn't figure out how in the world they got there.

Then, once upon a time, Wayne Bradford posted a picture here of a Garand rack mounted in the back of a truck. Instantly I understood how those marks were made. Wish I had saved a copy of that photo.........

[1-12 INF (M)]

I have a stock from a CMP rifle that has big flat dents on the bottom of the stock between the rear of the trigger guard and the butt swivel. I thought those may be from some kind of racking too.

[StockDoc]

I am sure that a 70 yr old stock would have rub marks and more. Heck even NEW CMP stocks/barrels have some rub marks if you look at the closely.

Does all the Parkerizing match on the metal, if so probably not original.

[RCS]

Stocks like these two in the photos would be more of an indication of WW2 service.

last stock is 1903

[2111]

The OP said "Would rack rub marks (rub marks on the upper barrel --------". He is not asking about marks on the stock.

[Lee T.]

I have an early HRA collector grade from the CMP that has "mongo" rack marks-look more like a chainsaw blade skipped across it.
jd, this may be hard to follow without pictures, but.......
It sounds like these particular marks are typical of a stock that had a web sling, with the metal clasp. A lot of these today are mounted backwards - the hump of the clasp should actually be on the stock side, and if the tightened clasp is positioned over the wood, it causes the indents you describe when used in close order drill. Adjusted properly, the clasp should be just over the clip well cover, which would prevent the marks.
Remember that many M1's (as well as 03's) spent a LOT of time on the shoulders of marching trainees, cadets, and honor guards. If mounted incorrectly like you see these days, the hump would dig into shoulders - not comfortable. You want the flat side out, and if it's positioned to be pressing against the wood instead of the metal, it creates the indents.
You might think "this guy is nuts", but I spent considerable time with an M1 marching at right-shoulder-arms with a web sling. The adjusting clasp should be on the inside of the sling, which also keeps the tail from hanging out. Believe me, DS's do not appreciate hanging tails when at 'Present Arms'!
Hope this helps, lee

[StockDoc]

Fixed it to stock/ barrel, thanks 2111

But, if you think about it the rack never touches the upper barrel, it rested on the upper handguard and the lock bar was on the bottom of the upper handguard.

[Rick B]

Sounds like handling marks from storage. Means nothing more than that. Being from WWII would not mean marks were somehow put on them. It was storage, his handling, possible a barrel wrench or way someone held the rifle while pulling the barrels to make correct or many other possibilities.

Key to this all is "Buy the Rifle, not the Story" Hope this helps. Rick B

[Sunray]

Doesn't matter where rub marks are, they mean nothing.

[jd:^)]

I have an early HRA collector grade from the CMP that has "mongo" rack marks-look more like a chainsaw blade skipped across it.
jd, this may be hard to follow without pictures, but.......
It sounds like these particular marks are typical of a stock that had a web sling, with the metal clasp. A lot of these today are mounted backwards - the hump of the clasp should actually be on the stock side, and if the tightened clasp is positioned over the wood, it causes the indents you describe when used in close order drill. Adjusted properly, the clasp should be just over the clip well cover, which would prevent the marks.
Remember that many M1's (as well as 03's) spent a LOT of time on the shoulders of marching trainees, cadets, and honor guards. If mounted incorrectly like you see these days, the hump would dig into shoulders - not comfortable. You want the flat side out, and if it's positioned to be pressing against the wood instead of the metal, it creates the indents.
You might think "this guy is nuts", but I spent considerable time with an M1 marching at right-shoulder-arms with a web sling. The adjusting clasp should be on the inside of the sling, which also keeps the tail from hanging out. Believe me, DS's do not appreciate hanging tails when at 'Present Arms'!
Hope this helps, lee

I know what you're referring to but these are a bit "aggressive" for buckle bite:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/sofbak/DSCF5742_zps3d8f0b1b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sofbak/media/DSCF5742_zps3d8f0b1b.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/sofbak/DSCF5743_zps5fd7f618.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sofbak/media/DSCF5743_zps5fd7f618.jpg.html)

That rack I mentioned held about 12 rifles in one row, and there was an angle iron cross bar that held them in place in the same general region as these hash marks. That bar kept them from jumping out of the rack, but didn't do a very good job of keeping them from bouncing up and down when the truck rolled along......