Inner primer hole burr .45acp

[Craig from kazoo]

I'm reloading some .45 acp brass a fired a while back. As I was poking out bits of corn cob polishing media from the inside of my primer holes with a wooden skewer, I could feel and see a burr on the inside primer hole.

My question is, is this a non-issue? I deburr my rifle i.d. primer holes but not sure you need to on the .45. At the same time though, these rounds will be the results of a new load on a new press, so I'm not keen on more variables lol.

Thanks,

Craig

[Hefights]

What are you loading for? I can't imagine it would make any notable difference in pistol shooting. Deburring primer pockets in .45 ACP is a strong candidate for a waste of time.

[Craig from kazoo]

And that's what i'm trying to avoid, thanks.

[joem]

Deburr a few and try them out to see if you notice any difference.

[mikld]

I'm of the thought that any process done on one's brass is only a waste of time/effort if the user thinks so. I don't do a lot of things to my brass that some do, but I may do some things no one else does. For my M1 brass (HXP) I do a lot of stuff I don't do on any other caliber I reload. But I have the time, I don't mind, and I'm doing some "reloading stuff". I only tumble my 45 ACP brass 'cause I like a shiny case to be able to find them in the dirt, rocks and misc. stuff at the range, nuttin' more, no trimming, no primer pocket cleaning, etc., but I'd suggest a test, if you wanna; deburr and trim, re-do all primer pockets, tumble to a high polish, and sort by head stamp and weight. Reload and check groups. Then take some mixed brass, right off the range and reload them, same load. See if there is a difference to you...

[Timberwolf]

If Bullseye shooting, maybe deburr them, else load 'em up and shoot.

[Craig from kazoo]

I'll see how they shoot without. They have shot successfully before, guess I just don't remember the burrs being so obvious.

Sure won't miss the work!

Thanks,

Craig

[Sunray]

The only time it'd matter is if it interfered with seating the primer.

[Matt Anthony]

The only time it'd matter is if it interfered with seating the primer.
In my opinion and with what I have been taught, the inner surface of the primer flash hole should be clear of any burrs or pieces of brass from when the machine punched the primer hole. Will it hurt anything, probably not, but it's not suppose to be there!
Matt

[raymeketa]

Deburring flash holes on anything but super accurate Benchrest ammunition is a waste of time. Even then, you'd be hard pressed to tell any differences. Deburring something like 45 ACP will not turn your M1911 pistol into a match winner. Besides, how exactly would you be able to tell the difference in accuracy? You would need something like a Ransom Rest and even then you'd be measuring differences so small that they'd be meaningless.

JMHO

[Craig from kazoo]

I'm not expecting match accuracy, but if I could get rid of an occasional flier then hooray. I'm finishing up prepping 500 cases so after taking your appreciated advice, I'm saving a bunch of time.

Thanks,

Craig

[Matt Anthony]

I'm not expecting match accuracy, but if I could get rid of an occasional flier then hooray. I'm finishing up prepping 500 cases so after taking your appreciated advice, I'm saving a bunch of time.

Thanks,

Craig

It is true that benchrest shooters take much time to insure their cases all are equal. By doing that they take another variable out of the accuracy question. Flash hole deburring does matter as far as flame distribution, don't let anyone tell you any different.
Buying cases such as Lapua, will allow you to see why they cost what they do! Very little prep is needed with these cases.
As these pistol cases of yours, deburring is an option by you, however, it would drive me crazy to know they could have burrs due to the manufacturing process and not removed! I couldn't sleep at night knowing this..............
Matt

[raymeketa]

It's true that Benchrest shooters (I am one) do many things to their brass that other shooters would not think of doing. But, we will also admit that some of the things probably do nothing to improve accuracy. De-burring flasholes is one of those things. AFAIK, no one has ever done any controlled testing to see if ragged flasholes make any difference. But, we will keep doing it just in case it does make a difference. Benchrest matches are won or lost in thousandths of an inch differences in group size so it's worth the extra time. Plus, it only has to be done once.

Most Benchrest shooters feel that the length of the flashole is more important than it's diameter or uniformaty. So, we use tools that uniform flashole length, with diameter and removing the ragged edge as secondary.

Deburring flash holes on cartridges such as 45 ACP is probably a waste of time. IF there is any improvent in accuracy because of it, you'd never know because there is no way to measure such small differences in a pistol.

But, if it makes you feel better, then do it.

Ray

[Hefights]

If you're shooting mixed or range brass, you will have many more variables there. Not something you do for normal pistol shooting, maybe somebody does it but I have yet to meet them. The time to worry, maybe, is if you see AMERC on the headstamp. The flash holes are way off center and it's lower quality, and I have heard some other horror stories too. I have a can AMERC brass, and even with the off center holes they actually still shoot ok.

[Matt Anthony]

Most Benchrest shooters feel that the length of the flashole is more important than it's diameter or uniformaty. So, we use tools that uniform flashole length, with diameter and removing the ragged edge as secondary.
Ray

I have been shooting benchrest for 30 years and I have never heard that the length of the flash hole is an issue. Deburring and making sure the flashhole is concentrict (actually round) is an operation and uniforming the primer pocket so it's flat is yet another. There are specs on primer pocket depth. Never have I seen flash hole depth/length dimensions nor have I ever seen tools to change the depth of the flash hole from inside the case. Enlighten me please! This is one of the reasons I use Lapua cases on my three bench rest rifles!
As an example on Lapua cases, I have an old Rem. 40X in 222 Rem. with a blueprinted action, jewell trigger, Krieger SS barrel blank in a Holland stock topped with a Leupold 36X scope with Kelby rings. With N133 and 52 gr. 1410 Sierra's you measure the 5 shot hole at 100 yards. I know the PPC's have taken over and the 222 is but a past dream, but with every duck in order, it still surprizes me how accurate this cartridge is! I say brass quality matters and I stick with the opinion on flash hole concentricy. On other brands of brass, I have noted large pieces of brass clinging to the inner hole surface. With pistol brass, since I only load a small quantity at a time, I still deburr the brass, it's just another operation to me!
Matt

[raymeketa]

Matt

Have you never used any of the Sinclair flash hole tools? The original has been around since 1980 or so. They now make about 5 different models. RCBS also makes one as does K&M. Midway sells a knock- off under their own brand name.

AFAIK there is no specific flash hole length that shoots better than another but, like all things Benchrest, it's the uniformity of length that matters.

I've been shooting Benchrest (with a capital B) for over 30 years myself. I shoot only in the western states (NBRSA). Maybe our paths have crossed somewhere??

Ray

[Matt Anthony]

Matt

Have you never used any of the Sinclair flash hole tools? The original has been around since 1980 or so. They now make about 5 different models. RCBS also makes one as does K&M. Midway sells a knock- off under their own brand name.

AFAIK there is no specific flash hole length that shoots better than another but, like all things Benchrest, it's the uniformity of length that matters.

I've been shooting Benchrest (with a capital B) for over 30 years myself. I shoot only in the western states (NBRSA). Maybe our paths have crossed somewhere??

Ray

Well of course I have flash hole deburring tools, I believe I have all of the manufacturers in fact. The deburring tool removes the inner burrs if any and provides a chamferred inner hole. The primer pocket uniforming tools, squares the pocket at a specific depth. Other than that, you can't change the length or depth of the flash hole. In fact, that would be detrimental and unsafe as that alters the integrity of the case. I have found that Lapua brass is the best and is superior to all other brands. No, I doubt our paths have crossed, but one never knows do they!
Matt

[raymeketa]

Matt

There are flash hole deburring tools and there are also tools that uniform the length of the flash hole while deburring. Yes, you can change the length of the flash hole. The tools index off the case mouth. Exactly how that would compromise the integrity of the case escapes me. Llapua brass used to be high quality but even it has become less so over the years. The newer stuff can benefit from all of the Benchrest prep steps.

Where do you shoot Benchrest? I know a lot of the Eastern and Southern shooters since many of them shoot at places like Midland and Phoenix.

Ray

[Matt Anthony]

Ray:
Send me a tool number or site that shows changing the depth of the flash hole. Show a book that gives any dimensions on flash hole depth or length. Show me a site that shows measuring from the case mouth to the web at the flash hole.

Flash hole diameter, deburring and squaring the primer pocket plus the depth of the pocket is all I have ever done. I have never measured from the case mouth to the upper web and have never read about it either.

I shoot informal benchrest with Bob Sandretto of Illinois and Tom Shilka out of Wisconsin plus 6 other guys at our range. Tom is a State Champion here in Wisconsin. I am not on the circuit, I can't afford it with the cost of our pill shooting every Sunday morning.
Matt

[raymeketa]

Matt

Nowhere did I say that there is a standard flash hole length or that I measure the length. What I said was that a uniform flash hole length contributes to accuracy, albeit such improvement may be minuscule in the overall scheme of things. But, today's Benchrest matches are won or lost by thousandths of an inch in group size and every competitive shooter that I know will do whatever is necessary to achieve those thousandths.

The original flash hole uniformers were mostly fixed. When the different lots of 220 Russian cases were first imported and being converted into PPCs, it was noted that there were several different internal case head designs which were hard to accommodate with the preset cutters. That's when the adjustable tools were introduced by Sinclair, RCBS, and others. They uniform flash hole length by indexing off the case mouth which, of course, requires that the case is first trimmed to uniform length. Actually, most Benchrest shooters that I know will first fire-form the case before trimming to length, uniforming the primer pocket depth, and uniforming the flash hole diameter and length. That first firing can move brass around and if those prep steps are done before fire-forming, they will have to be repeated for uniformity.

I do not know either of the shooters you mentioned.

Ray

[Matt Anthony]

Thanks Ray, Lyman also makes an adjustable unit that works for all calibers. And if there was a misunderstanding, then it's been taken care of I guess!
Shilka is getting older, mid=seventies and shoots in Arizona in the winters and upnorth in Wisconsin the rest of the year. Sandretto at 69 is new meat these last two years. Tom Morley who was the plant manager for Snap On in Milwaukee also shot benchrest for a bit. You may not know these guys but they are great shooters but age has taken it's toll on their eyesight and the fact they are falling apart!
They have been shooting hunter class this last year and benchrest with their custom cartridges and rifles. I see thousands of dollars they spend just keeping up. The weekly crownings, constant new barrels and the custom bullets they buy from one source. It's a rich mans sport in my opinion.
I will never be on the circuit as I run two business' and must keep up with them, plus the grandkids and helping out others. Anyway, if I ruffled your feathers, if wasn't meant to disrespect you. Hope you do well in the coming shooting season.
Matt

[raymeketa]

Matt

No feathers were ruffled. Just two guys talking about guns and shooting.

I'm an old guy too and having a hard time seeing, like most of us eventually do. Even the 36X scopes don't help. They just make the blurry vision a lot bigger. ;-)

I used to shoot all 6 matches in AZ in the winter but don't get down there much anymore. I may have shot with Shilka but do not remember him.

Ray

[Matt Anthony]

Matt

No feathers were ruffled. Just two guys talking about guns and shooting.

I'm an old guy too and having a hard time seeing, like most of us eventually do. Even the 36X scopes don't help. They just make the blurry vision a lot bigger. ;-)

I used to shoot all 6 matches in AZ in the winter but don't get down there much anymore. I may have shot with Shilka but do not remember him.

Ray

I will be seeing him this coming Sunday and will see if he remembers you! Due to his wife having hip issues his AZ snowbird annual retreat has been curtailed! He might have to spend the winter in the cold.......
Matt